• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS Some question about Saurus Oldblood on Carnsaur

Byte
Saurus

Byte

Member
Messages
50
Likes Received
84
Trophy Points
18
Hello, everyone. I have some doubts regarding Carnosaurus. I'm sure you'll be able to answer them right away :-)

Question 1: The Oldblood's "Ancient Warlord" command skill. Can he use it for himself?

Question 2: If question 1 is affirmative, I understand that I can use it with "Carnosaur's Clawed Forelimbs" attack and roll 4 dice, right?

Question 3: If question 3 is affirmative, I understand that you only need two successes with the "Carnosaur's Clawed Forelimbs" attack in order to add 2 to the "Carnosaur's Massive Jaws" attack, right?

Question 4: Does the "Blood Frenzy" skill only apply if I kill an enemy using "Carnosaur's Clawed Forelimbs" as the last attack? If the question is affirmative, I understand that the correct order to make the attacks with this hero is: 1- "Sunstone Spear", 2-"Carnosaur's Clawed Forelimbs" 3- "Carnosaur's Massive Jaws", is that correct?

Question 4: The ability "Blood Frenzy", when it talks about enemy, it talks about enemy unit not enemy miniature, is that right?

Thank you in advance and greetings
 
1-3 are all correct.

4: at least one model has to be slain by the Jaws for the ability to work.
And yes, I would always attack Spear,Claws,Jaws.

5: it only says enemy. I interpret that as any enemy model. So if you kill one Grot out of a unit of 40 with your Jaws, that should be sufficient.
 
Actually here is an way to interpret the pinned down ability, to answer question #3. The text says a monster needs to be HIT twice, not wounded or damaged, so two successes can simply be two hits.
 
To quote the text “If an enemy monster is hit twice with the carnosaurs clawed forelimbs, you can add 2 to the result when rolling to hit that target with the carnosaurs massive jaws in the same turn”
With the command ability this makes pinned down guaranteed, and making about 3 bites very likely to deal damage.

Wait, was I the first one to notice this?
 
Well so long as it is legit, we should be safe using it in tournaments and such
 
Putzfrau said:
You're almost always going to be better off using the command ability on the jaws, unless you also have the Scar Vet ability on him.
Click to expand...
Dependent, I would certainly agree with you on attacking infantry as pinned down doesn’t trigger on infantry. However when it comes to monsters it should go on the claws.

Math time!
Max damage: these are the absolute maximums for each
on jaws (7 jaw, 2 claw) 25 damage
On claws (5 jaw, 4 claw) 23 damage
While this is unlikely it’s helpful to illustrate damage values

Stastical averages against a monster
On jaws:
Part 1 claws: 66.6% chance of hitting, approx 1.33 out of 2 hit, wounds approx 66.6% chance, .88 out of initial 2 will wound, so roughly 2 damage, or if your unlucky no wounds, no rend
Part 2 jaws: 50% chance of hitting, approx 3.5 out of 7 hit, wounds approx 66.6% chance, approx 2.33 out of the initial 7 will wound, so roughly 6-9 wounds, rend 1, however owing to the lower 2.33, 6 is more likely.
On Claws:
Part 1 claws: 66.6% chance of hitting, approx 2.66 out of 4 hit, wounds approx 66.6% chance, 1.77 out of initial 4 will wound, so approximately 2 or 4 wounds, no rend
Part 2 jaws: 83.3% chance of hitting, approx 4.166 out of 5 hit (it’s a 2+ as pinned down triggers on hits), wounds approx 66.6% chance so 2.77 out of initial 5 will wound. Wounds are approximately 6 or 9 rend 1, however higher 2.77 means 9 is more likely.

Totals
So option one can lead to between 6 and 11 wounds, all values are 6, 8, 9, and 11
Median:8 or 9, Mean 8.5 Mode: N/A Range:5

Option 2: claws can lead to between 8 and 13 wounds, all values are 8, 10, 11, and 13
Median: 10 or 11, Mean: 10.5, Mode: N/A Range 5

Conclusions: while jaws may seem more tempting that initial 4+ can lead to some less consistent results, even with 7 attacks means consistency will suffer. With claws having an initial 2+ hit leads to most of the attacks getting through fairly consistently. The greatest differences are that the claws offer more no rend attacks but also more consistent output of damage from the jaws. While the use of those extra attacks has more potential to put out rend 1 high damage attacks, its consistency can bring it down. If we look at averages, while on paper they have similar outputs probability suggests that 9 rend 1 wounds come from the claws getting buffed while 6 rend 1 wounds come from buffed jaws. With claws the buffed claws have a potential to deal 2 wounds while 4 is more likely. With natural claws (no buffs) there is a potential for no wounds, but 2 is more likely.

In summation: if you want to go high risk high reward or are dealing with infantry, use the jaws as the target of the buff. However you want a generally more consistent amount of damage on a monster buff the claws for better and more consistent results, however if attacking infantry always default to the jaws.

In general the Oldblood does have a powerful set of weapons, and the sunstone spear and sunbolt gauntlet should not be overlooked or forgotten either as they are also capable of dealing damage to help out.
 
What also can make a huge difference in damage output is the Serpent Staff of a nearby Starpriest.

It makes using the command ability on the jaws a bit better.
 
Aginor said:
What also can make a huge difference in damage output is the Serpent Staff of a nearby Starpriest.

It makes using the command ability on the jaws a bit better.
Click to expand...
Agreed, however we can’t always guarantee a nearby starpriest. Although if we get a starpriest in range that could be devastating to the enemy, it could probably take out a terrorgheist or zombie dragon with some luck.

Now I should do the math for that to
 
If you have multiple CP to burn and the serpents staff buff active then target the claws once and put the remainder into the jaws when fighting vs enemy monsters.
 
Lizerd said:
Agreed, however we can’t always guarantee a nearby starpriest. Although if we get a starpriest in range that could be devastating to the enemy, it could probably take out a terrorgheist or zombie dragon with some luck.

Now I should do the math for that to
Click to expand...

I worry about the no rend on claws, so you always run the risk of doing no damage on the claws, and i don't mind the variance in the jaw attack damage especially because rerolls are so easy to come by. I've found that when i have rerolls i tend to prefer more dice vs fewer better performing dice.

Nice to see the math tho, thank you! Always love seeing everything mapped out, it really helps to plan out your attacks when you have a better understanding of the math.
 
Fair enough, if your doing rerolls, then definitely go for the jaws, the chance to add in even a few more jaws would work well, possibly dealing 9 or 12 wounds. With rend I do see what your saying, especially as lacking rend against heavy armor is huge. So maybe vs light or medium armor, claws. Heavy armor; jaws. I personally prefer buffing because I am kind of lazy, but also we can’t always guarantee rerolls. However your point makes sense, if you have rerolls, go for the jaws.
 
I remember reading somewhere that no command ability can target a mount, it has to be the guy riding it?
 
Tilorn91 said:
I remember reading somewhere that no command ability can target a mount, it has to be the guy riding it?
Click to expand...
Negative. IIRC that was a misprint in one of the old (2017) English GHBs (other languages didn't have that error) that mixed up traits and abilities.
Command abilities can target a mount, command traits cannot unless noted otherwise.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top