I see so many people take Life with a slann and I just can't understand it. I run light with mine as i have no problem with miscasts (an enemy wizard takes the first one!) my warriors are tough as old boots anyway. I'm willing to be convinced so please help me see the benefit of Life!
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8th Ed. Slann with Light
- Thread starter Tim-rek
- Start date
Personally I think it depends on your play style and army list. Light, to me, is a more aggressive lore that allows you to put more of a hurt on the enemy (assuming you have enough high strength attacks) and can boost your movement.
Life, on the other hand, is an anvil lore. It can make Saurus toughness six or even eight, and give Temple Guard regeneration AND the boosted toughness. Plus it has one of the most dreaded mass effect spells in the game, Dwellers. What I wouldn't count on is for Life to turn you into scaly vampires: Regrowth doesn't do enough to really restore mass losses, but rather for restoring key models and key moments in the battle.
...not sure if that really helped promote Life Lore. Then again I use Light pretty much all the time myself too.
Pyre
Life, on the other hand, is an anvil lore. It can make Saurus toughness six or even eight, and give Temple Guard regeneration AND the boosted toughness. Plus it has one of the most dreaded mass effect spells in the game, Dwellers. What I wouldn't count on is for Life to turn you into scaly vampires: Regrowth doesn't do enough to really restore mass losses, but rather for restoring key models and key moments in the battle.
...not sure if that really helped promote Life Lore. Then again I use Light pretty much all the time myself too.
Pyre
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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This is all from my opinion and experience, feel free to tell me i'm an idiot 
It's a lot of preference in what lore you take. I thoroughly enjoy using Light on my Slann on occasion since you can make up for Lizardmen's abysmal initiative and boost their WS in one spell, gives you a couple magic missiles to channel through your skink priests and can have a great "what the heck just happened" potential with Briona's timewarp when your skink horde all of a sudden has a potential 24" charge range.
Even better, if you get Briona's timewarp AND the speed of light off on a unit, they have ASF & In 10, so they gain hatred (on a ridiculous WS), so they're not going to miss as they get to re-roll misses (except against HE - dirty HE).
Another good combo is to get Pha's Protection on a unit from the Slann + Iceshard Blizzard on the unit attacking you from one of your skink priests and all of a sudden, that unit has -2 to hit you. That means, they're hitting you on, at least 5's, 6+'s for anything WS 3 or lower.
----- Enough about the joys of light
After playing a solo slann with shadow the other day for the first day, I've learned the joys of that lore too.
A unit of 5 cold one knights was charged by a unit of 9 undead knights w/ a hatred banner & a +1 to hit banner and a wight king - Potentially a lot of pain. We were doing the grand battle thing where everyone does moves, then magic, then shooting, so in the magic phase I hit them with every debuff that lore has. I ended up fighting WS1, In1, Str 1 (+2 from lances), To 1 knights. Had it not been for their hatred and killing blow, I wouldn't have lost a single model.
Okkam's Mindrazor on a horde of skinks or even skirmishers with javelins make for a great "surprise" unit when they realize they're being shot 20 times with strength 6 javelins.
And _very_ important for a solo slann, the lore attribute. When your Slann gets charged (shame on you for letting your slann get charged! I miss the days of "your slann has str what? and HOW many attacks?"), you can cast 1 single spell and all of a sudden, instead of fighting a slann, they're fighting a low point skink priest or a stubborn old-one w/ a 1+ rerollable save and 5+ wsv.
---- Now for Life
The main reason for taking life, as i've seen it, is to get throne of vines off. This just gives you that LITTLE bit of extra protection. The chance that you get a 2nd miscast if you are throwing lots of dice at spells and losing your slann outright is a major danger.
And if your opponent allows you to get that spell ALL the spells in life are dangerous. You're looking at potentially unbeatable blocks of saurus or even skinks. With regeneration, +4 toughness, and taking hits from shield of thorns, it's a unit you don't want to fight all that much. Plus, if you kill less than 7 models, there's a good chance you're seeing them next round again.
It gives defense against shooting, the ability to bring back guys that failed in the defense against shooting and the big spell has the potential to wipe out an entire unit of troops without blinking. Hit a horde of elves, dwarves, humans, marauders, skinks, skaven, brettonians, undead and they're looking at, on average, a 50% loss rate. If you have a 2 slann list and manage to bring them down to Str 1, kiss that unit goodbye.
---
I haven't tried beasts, fire is imo just for dealing lots of damage and I prefer the synergy of buffs/debuffs, metal has some potential (if you know you're fighting armor), heavens is a waste imo since you can use your priests for that, and I haven't tried death.
TL;DR - take what you like, they're all good
It's a lot of preference in what lore you take. I thoroughly enjoy using Light on my Slann on occasion since you can make up for Lizardmen's abysmal initiative and boost their WS in one spell, gives you a couple magic missiles to channel through your skink priests and can have a great "what the heck just happened" potential with Briona's timewarp when your skink horde all of a sudden has a potential 24" charge range.
Even better, if you get Briona's timewarp AND the speed of light off on a unit, they have ASF & In 10, so they gain hatred (on a ridiculous WS), so they're not going to miss as they get to re-roll misses (except against HE - dirty HE).
Another good combo is to get Pha's Protection on a unit from the Slann + Iceshard Blizzard on the unit attacking you from one of your skink priests and all of a sudden, that unit has -2 to hit you. That means, they're hitting you on, at least 5's, 6+'s for anything WS 3 or lower.
----- Enough about the joys of light
After playing a solo slann with shadow the other day for the first day, I've learned the joys of that lore too.
A unit of 5 cold one knights was charged by a unit of 9 undead knights w/ a hatred banner & a +1 to hit banner and a wight king - Potentially a lot of pain. We were doing the grand battle thing where everyone does moves, then magic, then shooting, so in the magic phase I hit them with every debuff that lore has. I ended up fighting WS1, In1, Str 1 (+2 from lances), To 1 knights. Had it not been for their hatred and killing blow, I wouldn't have lost a single model.
Okkam's Mindrazor on a horde of skinks or even skirmishers with javelins make for a great "surprise" unit when they realize they're being shot 20 times with strength 6 javelins.
And _very_ important for a solo slann, the lore attribute. When your Slann gets charged (shame on you for letting your slann get charged! I miss the days of "your slann has str what? and HOW many attacks?"), you can cast 1 single spell and all of a sudden, instead of fighting a slann, they're fighting a low point skink priest or a stubborn old-one w/ a 1+ rerollable save and 5+ wsv.
---- Now for Life
The main reason for taking life, as i've seen it, is to get throne of vines off. This just gives you that LITTLE bit of extra protection. The chance that you get a 2nd miscast if you are throwing lots of dice at spells and losing your slann outright is a major danger.
And if your opponent allows you to get that spell ALL the spells in life are dangerous. You're looking at potentially unbeatable blocks of saurus or even skinks. With regeneration, +4 toughness, and taking hits from shield of thorns, it's a unit you don't want to fight all that much. Plus, if you kill less than 7 models, there's a good chance you're seeing them next round again.
It gives defense against shooting, the ability to bring back guys that failed in the defense against shooting and the big spell has the potential to wipe out an entire unit of troops without blinking. Hit a horde of elves, dwarves, humans, marauders, skinks, skaven, brettonians, undead and they're looking at, on average, a 50% loss rate. If you have a 2 slann list and manage to bring them down to Str 1, kiss that unit goodbye.
---
I haven't tried beasts, fire is imo just for dealing lots of damage and I prefer the synergy of buffs/debuffs, metal has some potential (if you know you're fighting armor), heavens is a waste imo since you can use your priests for that, and I haven't tried death.
TL;DR - take what you like, they're all good
Ripperdactyl
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Not so, it would affect a Dwarf with the Master Rune of Flight! However yes, I can't think of any other case in which the buff can apply to thrown weapons.Dogfisc said:
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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Agrem said:
Both old blood and Slann are infantry are they not? even though the slann is on a palaquin, it's still classified as infantry according to the BRB. That makes them the same troop type.
So long as the old blood is on foot (if he was mounted, that would make him Calvary) they can swap without any issue.
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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Dogfisc said:
My apologies, i had read the spell as "Str as Ld until caster's next magic phase" which would apply to thrown weapons, but the BRB has more detail than my army lists. We've all treated that as I've mentioned it at our LGS and i'll bring it up next time i'm there.
Another good reason to read the rules instead of trusting armybuilder
Carnasaur
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Speed of Light enhanced saurus are definetaly good. But aren't (Chosen) Chaos warriors also core? Anyway, still good!
Personally, I prefer Light. It is indeed a more aggressive lore like Pyre said. And I like to set the pace of the game, instead of reacting to my opponents moves.
Life is a more defensive lore. Ofcourse it's good, but your opponent will simply dispell the toughness buff and then you lose your most important buff...There is no way for you to make the game, you can only react. Ofcourse, you can react to anything your opponent can think of like Chuck Norris...but still.
The Hunted
Personally, I prefer Light. It is indeed a more aggressive lore like Pyre said. And I like to set the pace of the game, instead of reacting to my opponents moves.
Life is a more defensive lore. Ofcourse it's good, but your opponent will simply dispell the toughness buff and then you lose your most important buff...There is no way for you to make the game, you can only react. Ofcourse, you can react to anything your opponent can think of like Chuck Norris...but still.
The Hunted
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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The Hunted said:
Thank goodness those guys are special and 7 points more than a saurus warrior! I'd hate to fight an army that is 100% chosen, that'd hurt.
Points-wise, I'd still give it to chaos though, Marauders w/ Flails have a higher WS, higher I and higher str (in first round of combat) and are slightly less than 1/2 the cost. They don't have the save, but they're dirt cheap and don't leave much to attack after they're done. They don't take a hit very well though.
Then again, you could always take 100+ skinks and reduce them to twitching piles of mush with their low toughness and no armor.
Carnasaur
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ForgottenKnight2001 said:
That's good to know
. And while ofcourse they are waaay more expensive, if only looking to the raw power of a unit (not point by point etc) then what would you go for? 
Marauders are scary...so cheap and with a very high damage output. Dangerous! If they get in combat with something, they are sure to leave their mark on that unit...
Especially in 8th edition, where damage output is one of the most important abilities (if not the!) a unit can have.
Example: Swordmasters, ugh!
The Hunted
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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A unit for raw power? Chaos Knights to be sure. Put a mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle on them and give them the always frenzied banner. They have the mobility, initiative, weapon skill and strength to eat through anything on the board. They can even crush hordes since their strength doesn't go down after the first round like regular knights. Make them 8 wide, put a character in it and watch people whimper.
In terms of foot troops, I've had a horde chosen unit of warriors of tzeentch with halberds get the 4+ and stubborn from the warshrine. That's a 3+ because the tzeentch ward save stacks. + stubborn + their armor + high WS makes them a force to be reckoned with. Even flanked they don't care because of the stubborn from the warshrine (but that's just a lucky roll).
Swordmen from empire are surprisingly sturdy too. Amazing what I4 and shields give you.
In terms of foot troops, I've had a horde chosen unit of warriors of tzeentch with halberds get the 4+ and stubborn from the warshrine. That's a 3+ because the tzeentch ward save stacks. + stubborn + their armor + high WS makes them a force to be reckoned with. Even flanked they don't care because of the stubborn from the warshrine (but that's just a lucky roll).
Swordmen from empire are surprisingly sturdy too. Amazing what I4 and shields give you.
Meh, having played Warriors quite a lot over the past two years, Chaos Knights are not the death machines people think of them as. They're so expensive that every wound hurts (they aren't going to be that big of a unit) and with stepping up and hordes you are going to take hits back. Yes they have a 1+ armor save, but even lots of strength five attacks will get some wounds through and Steadfast means you're going to be standing there for a while. Also they're only strength five themselves, so against toughness four or higher models the volume of wounds they put out is rather small compared to big infantry units.
Warriors and chosen actually are much more brutal at just inflicting damage, and even great weapon marauders when you start considering the sheer volume of attacks.
To me the best damage output per point unit in the game, with the right set-up since we're throwing that in, is VC Grave Guard. Strength six, killing blow, can hit on 2+ and wound on 2+... and that's before spells start going off. Throw in a Time Warp or even Blade of Rhuin, then it gets even worse and they're only thirteen points a piece.
Pyre
Warriors and chosen actually are much more brutal at just inflicting damage, and even great weapon marauders when you start considering the sheer volume of attacks.
To me the best damage output per point unit in the game, with the right set-up since we're throwing that in, is VC Grave Guard. Strength six, killing blow, can hit on 2+ and wound on 2+... and that's before spells start going off. Throw in a Time Warp or even Blade of Rhuin, then it gets even worse and they're only thirteen points a piece.
Pyre
Saurus
ForgottenKnight2001
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I've fielded units of 10 knights before and they'll leave bits and pieces behind them, though now that you mention it, Grave Guard, for their points (the question was not including points costs) + banner of the barrows + the hatred banner is a MEAN unit. Throw a vampire nearby with that "you use my weapon skill" crown and watch things crumble.
They won't have the same staying power imo since they just have heavy armor, but once you put points back into it, there will be more of them
Add a wight w/ the D3 great weapon for some challenges and they're brutal to take apart.
Makes me want to dust off the VCs for a game. But i'm having too much fun with my Lizardmen right now
They won't have the same staying power imo since they just have heavy armor, but once you put points back into it, there will be more of them
Add a wight w/ the D3 great weapon for some challenges and they're brutal to take apart.
Makes me want to dust off the VCs for a game. But i'm having too much fun with my Lizardmen right now
As others have said, which Lore you take is pretty dependent on your playstyle. It also depends on the army you plan to run.
Life is very defensive, you only have one nuke spell (which is the best in the game, but short-ranged), and if 'Throne' is denied or fails to cast, you're not really getting bang for your buck. So, don't get aggressive, soak damage and make them get into 'Dwellers' range.
Light is half defense, half offense. The gun magic is some of the best in the game, and three of the more competitive armies (VC, TK and Daemons) all weep when you slaughter their infantry with it. 'Pha's Protection' wrecks warmachine spam armies (oh hai Skaven, Dwarves and Empire), 'Net' is hilarious when the enemy fails to pop it and is stuck doing nothing in their turn (including attached characters). 'Speed of Light' not only makes your Saurus actually hit ahead of something and accurately, it also provides defense against enemy nukes like 'Pit' or 'Purple Sun'. 'Timewarp' is of course insane and turns our Scar-Vets into killing machines.
Shadow is mostly gun magic, hexes and two important buffs. Free mobile cannonball is always handy (high Initiative can dodge it, but thats why you cast 'Misama' first), 'Pit' of course for nuking, 'Enfeeble' stacks well with 'Net' from Light and 'Dwellers' from Life. 'Withering' makes your Saurus wound more reliably. 'Steed of Shadows' is for making a Scar-Vet into a cruise missile to lob at warmachines or shooty units. 'Mindrazor' is insane and turns Temple Guard into gods.
Death is very short-range and all offense, I would only take it in a Double Slann list. It prints power dice (especially 'Purple Sun'), and the character assassination spells are great for sniping out mages, BSB's, Generals etc. It has no buffs though, so your army has to slog it out with default statlines whilst your Slann wreaks havoc.
Life is very defensive, you only have one nuke spell (which is the best in the game, but short-ranged), and if 'Throne' is denied or fails to cast, you're not really getting bang for your buck. So, don't get aggressive, soak damage and make them get into 'Dwellers' range.
Light is half defense, half offense. The gun magic is some of the best in the game, and three of the more competitive armies (VC, TK and Daemons) all weep when you slaughter their infantry with it. 'Pha's Protection' wrecks warmachine spam armies (oh hai Skaven, Dwarves and Empire), 'Net' is hilarious when the enemy fails to pop it and is stuck doing nothing in their turn (including attached characters). 'Speed of Light' not only makes your Saurus actually hit ahead of something and accurately, it also provides defense against enemy nukes like 'Pit' or 'Purple Sun'. 'Timewarp' is of course insane and turns our Scar-Vets into killing machines.
Shadow is mostly gun magic, hexes and two important buffs. Free mobile cannonball is always handy (high Initiative can dodge it, but thats why you cast 'Misama' first), 'Pit' of course for nuking, 'Enfeeble' stacks well with 'Net' from Light and 'Dwellers' from Life. 'Withering' makes your Saurus wound more reliably. 'Steed of Shadows' is for making a Scar-Vet into a cruise missile to lob at warmachines or shooty units. 'Mindrazor' is insane and turns Temple Guard into gods.
Death is very short-range and all offense, I would only take it in a Double Slann list. It prints power dice (especially 'Purple Sun'), and the character assassination spells are great for sniping out mages, BSB's, Generals etc. It has no buffs though, so your army has to slog it out with default statlines whilst your Slann wreaks havoc.