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8th Ed. Skirmishers and Cohorts

Eladimir
Salamander

Eladimir

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With the changes to skirmishers and the buffs to Javelins in 8th got me thinking aren't small two rank groups of cohorts better?

Price:
5 points a model for cohorts (Javelin and Shield)
8 points a model for skirmishers (Javelin and Sheild)
Thats 50% more for the same stat block

Skirmishers have better reform options
but the cohorts with a musician matchs up pretty reasonably

The only things not a 100% on that might help swing things:
Can Cohorts march and shoot?
Do skirmishers not block LoS for friendly units? (Can't think of many situations you need LoS through skinks, Slann can see over top, giant bow is on steg, salamanders maybe but if you shooting through skinks could be alot fo roasting)
 
to answer the first question, No the Cohorts can not march and shoot
and the second I really couldn't say, but with TLOS I would think the skirmisher screen would provide the units behind them soft cover.
 
Wait... I thought troops equiped with javelins didn't have penelites for marching and shooting, or long range.
 
Its no penalties to MOVE and Shoot so that means no -1 to hit after they move, only skirmishers can MARCH and shoot.
 
The only problem I see with the javelin chohort is the fact javelins have a 8" range, with only moving 6" a turn a range of 14" effectively isn't as effective as the range of the blowpipes and moving (24" I believe?)
 
Check the BRB they changed the range of javelins in 8th, I believe it's 12" now.
 
I'll have to look when I get home, I may use some javelins if they are longer range cause that's what put me off them
 
I played a battle this weekend and went entirely javelins. And I think it was way more effective than blowpipes. Hitting on 5/6 was certianly a nice impovement and when I had blow pipes the only time I ever got a multi shot off was if I was withing 6 inches (-1 move -1 multi) Which ment your so close you don't get a stand and shoot charge reaction.

But the biggest stand out was the shields. I had a 10 skinks charged by 8 rat swarms and a combonation of bad swarms rolls and some lucky sixes on saves the unit wasn't wiped out, and held till the sarus and steg rolled in for a big win.
 
n810 said:
Wait... I thought troops equiped with javelins didn't have penelites for marching and shooting, or long range.
Click to expand...

where does it say about the no long range modifiers? I can't see it :(
 
It's on the page in the main rule book where it shows all the diffrent weapon rules.
I thinks its rather tword the front of the book, well... in the first 80 pages or so.
(perety sure there isn't a range penality... mind you I am going from memory...)
 
looking at the small rule book, all it says is 12" and quick to fire, meaning no movement penalty :/
 
I believe it is under the quick to fire rule (or the javelin one).
 
It isn't under quick fire and I can't see any special rules for a javelin par the quick to fire :/
 
In 7th edition, javelins were "Thrown Weapons" which did not suffer a penalty for long range. In 8th, javelins no longer have that exemption, so they have long range penalties like everything else. But to compensate, they are 'quick to fire' and have a longer range than in 7th.
 
Thanks for that :) I was scouring the book for ages thinking I was missing something.
 
Oops didn't realize that they had lost that rule...
I still have only played a few games of 8th so far.
I guess somewhere in the back of my mind I had
convinced myself it was under the quick to fire rule..?
 
Javelins are "Quick To Fire", so they have no move modifiers and they can stand and shoot at any distance, even 1"!

The main plus side to the Blowpipes is the option to double fire. In a 2400 point game (our league standard) I run 2 or 3 units of 10 with blowpipes. I feel that 20 dice auto wounding on 6s is better than 10 dice and having to roll to hit and wound, especially against anything T4 or better. Hydras, abominations and countless other baddies and war machines have fallen to hails of auto-wounding 6s from the Skink Skirmishers.

I did run a 50 Skink Cohort Horde unit against Dark Elves, ranked them up in 2 25 wide ranks in front of my TG. When he charged his block of Witch Elves into the Skinks; they took them down to less than 4 or 5 models in a flurry of 50 Javelins. Was pretty spectacular, but again DE WE are T3 and have no Armour. The Frenzied WE then chewed though more than a dozen Skinks in close combat, but in the end the Skinks were victorious.
 
You do know javelins also benefit from the jungle poisons rule right?
 
HoverBoy said:
You do know javelins also benefit from the jungle poisons rule right?
Click to expand...


Yes.

My point was that if you have a unit of 10 Skink Skirmishers that you are war-machine hunting with or trying to take down anything over T5, basically anything you are are going to need 6s to wound anyway; so better to use Blowpipes and roll 20 dice rather than javelins and only roll 10 dice.

Statistically it is just better (math-hammer)
 
Yeah thats defintely true SanDiego, but to be able to get the multiple shots off on 6's you need the whole unit to be within 6 inches for short range.
-1 for move and fire, -1 for multple shots = 6's
So being that close means when you get charged you don't get stand and shoot. So in the case of being in the frontal arc of a unit, javelins are approximately equal plus they get two 6+ saves.

If you got your blowpipes are working 6 inches from the rear or flank thats great.
(Man that sounds dirty)
 
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