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8th Ed. Skink Chief on Terradon = Great Eagle
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Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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The chief is a lot better than the great eagle.
He's got 3+ or even 2+ armor, has more attacks, and most importantly, the skink is FAST CAV.
Yes, he is totally worth it.
-Matt
He's got 3+ or even 2+ armor, has more attacks, and most importantly, the skink is FAST CAV.
Yes, he is totally worth it.
-Matt
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Even better, for 5 more points put him on a ripper. Downside is frenzy but the upside is 3 vice 1 mount attacks along with AP & KB. Also, due to frenzy, the model is ITP and won't panic.
Most of the time a flying skink chief would be working outside of your slanns bubble so I see frenzy(from the rippers)as a huge downside,forced overrun is also a pain in the ass. I personally like having as much control over my units as possible.
Wizgamer said:
Might want to read BrB pg91....
Spear when mounted is +1 strength on the charge
To The original question, much much better than a great eagle, easily can be a 2+ AS and a 2++ against flaming for under 100 points and still be good enough in combat to clear out chaff
Temple Guard
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A Chief on Terradon is better than a Great Eagle, but it should be. The Chief is 150% the cost of a basic Great Eagle and the weapon and equipment options people are mentioning just make him more expensive.
If you are strictly comparing the Chief to an Eagle as a throw-away redirector, then the Eagle is a better value. But the greater options allow the Chief to fill other roles, and that is where he becomes a good deal.
If you are strictly comparing the Chief to an Eagle as a throw-away redirector, then the Eagle is a better value. But the greater options allow the Chief to fill other roles, and that is where he becomes a good deal.
Scar-Veteran
spawning of Bob
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As for the ripper as a redirector: Frenzy = Immune to Psychology = Can't choose flee as a charge reaction 
Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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spawning of Bob said:As for the ripper as a redirector: Frenzy = Immune to Psychology = Can't choose flee as a charge reaction
My rippers are only frenzied for turn 1, turn 2 at the max. After that, I've lost a combat.
Terradon
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The Ripper or Terradon selection needs to be based on what the skink chief is going to be doing. In many cases, he is going to be a disposable hero that can go after war machines, tie up missile troops or go on a suicide run against a squishy wizard. In these instances, more attacks are generally better. Also, skirmishers and regular skinks are cheaper re-directors IMHO. I'm also discovering that the recent reduction in skink LD is quite significant and that panic is a far bigger problem than being forced to charge from frenzy. Furthermore, it is possible to offset the forced charge by simply declaring a charge in the first place against a preferred target. As for forced overruns, it means the ripper chief has emerged victorious in a battle and has already earned his points back so anything he does after that is a bonus. While I can see where having greater control over where the chief goes is handy, I personally am willing to sacrifice that for the benefits of putting fear into my opponent's mind that his high priced wizard could get KB'd 
Slann
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In case you guys haven't seen this. Here's the High Elf Eagle Tactica.
A Tactica that will enhance your understanding about Warhammer
A Tactica that will enhance your understanding about Warhammer
Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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That high elf tactica seems to have a lot of wish listing involved. Here's shooting some holes in some of his ideas.
1) Warmachine hunting has a turn 2 charge, and then the eagle running down the line. Without a vanguard, that turn 2 charge is going to be angled off the table, not down the line. That's why the Chief is better here. The 12" pregame move lets the 20" fly actually line up a proper over-run.
2) Wizard Assassination. Great Eagle does .88 wounds on a T3 opponent (which isn't a wizard lord). The elf poster seems to think that doing .88 wounds over two rounds, on a T3 wizard lord somehow equals 3 wounds, and that nobody takes ward saves on wizard lords. What's odd about this one, is that if the high elf player took 2 great eagles in 1 unit, and placed the 2nd behind the first, he'd get 2 supporting attacks would be able to try the assassinate in a single turn, instead of two turns. Chief is better here as well, as the S4 and S5 attacks (6 total) are far more likely to take out a wizard lord. Half with killing blow is a serious threat.
3) The rundown can be done by any unit. Charging a broken unit isn't exactly a tactical break through, and this can be covered by anything fast, or anything in the backfield (chameleon skinks).
4) Speed Bumps: the example is right out of 7th edition. 8th edition, the eagle is killed, forces a panic check on the 2nd eagle, and the opponent takes his free reform. You have slowed the opponent, but you better be packing enough shooting to make those 50 point speed bumps pay off. You also have to hope that your opponent can't deal with clearing the T4 no save model.
7) Combat res generator: Flank charge/rear charge into an existing fight is a good way to add +2 or +3 to combat res. BUT, the eagle has to be alive at the end of the fight, or you have only given up combat res. T4 no save isn't all that hard to kill for a lot of units, even those that are fighting to the flank or rear.
A 2+ save chief does this much, much better, and will wrack up quite a bit more combat res in the process (1 extra S4 attack, 3 extra S5 attacks, and the S4 is killing blow).
8) Avoid Stand and Shoot. If you're facing a big unit to your front, you should only stand and shoot if you think you might panic the big unit after killing the eagle (say, you have doom and darkness on the big block). Lone eagles do not get hard cover for being behind another unit. They have to be physically 50% obscured, just like every other unit of 1 in the game, like dragons, hydras, and chariots. Again, a 2+ save skink chief will survive a stand and shoot much better than an eagle. If said eagle was charging into my skink horde, I might stand and shoot at it. Hitting on 6's with 20 shots and poison should kill the eagle and force a panic check on the friendly infantry. If the infantry pass the panic, I can always then choose to flee from the infantry charge
9) Redirecting example is funny. It counts on, as the poster said, "Lets say due to either inexperience or Frenzy he overruns". If you're counting on inexperience or poorly supported frenzied death stars, you'll be winning anyway.
With all that said, some of the ideas are pretty good.
The long charge protection is nice. If one of your infantry blocks does make a long charge, having a flyer to block the enemy on the flank is very useful.
For anything that is a stalling action, the Chief is going to be stupidly better at it (again, 2+ armor at 89 points).
For anything that involves the flyer making attacks, the Chief is going to be much better at it (twice as many attacks, high strength).
For anything that involves sacrificing the unit entirely, the Great Eagle is better, as he's cheaper.
If 9th edition has ally rules (like 40K), I'd take lizardmen flyers over the great eagles. Both are good, but packing an armor save and having double the fighting power is totally worth the 56% cost increase.
-Matt
1) Warmachine hunting has a turn 2 charge, and then the eagle running down the line. Without a vanguard, that turn 2 charge is going to be angled off the table, not down the line. That's why the Chief is better here. The 12" pregame move lets the 20" fly actually line up a proper over-run.
2) Wizard Assassination. Great Eagle does .88 wounds on a T3 opponent (which isn't a wizard lord). The elf poster seems to think that doing .88 wounds over two rounds, on a T3 wizard lord somehow equals 3 wounds, and that nobody takes ward saves on wizard lords. What's odd about this one, is that if the high elf player took 2 great eagles in 1 unit, and placed the 2nd behind the first, he'd get 2 supporting attacks would be able to try the assassinate in a single turn, instead of two turns. Chief is better here as well, as the S4 and S5 attacks (6 total) are far more likely to take out a wizard lord. Half with killing blow is a serious threat.
3) The rundown can be done by any unit. Charging a broken unit isn't exactly a tactical break through, and this can be covered by anything fast, or anything in the backfield (chameleon skinks).
4) Speed Bumps: the example is right out of 7th edition. 8th edition, the eagle is killed, forces a panic check on the 2nd eagle, and the opponent takes his free reform. You have slowed the opponent, but you better be packing enough shooting to make those 50 point speed bumps pay off. You also have to hope that your opponent can't deal with clearing the T4 no save model.
7) Combat res generator: Flank charge/rear charge into an existing fight is a good way to add +2 or +3 to combat res. BUT, the eagle has to be alive at the end of the fight, or you have only given up combat res. T4 no save isn't all that hard to kill for a lot of units, even those that are fighting to the flank or rear.
A 2+ save chief does this much, much better, and will wrack up quite a bit more combat res in the process (1 extra S4 attack, 3 extra S5 attacks, and the S4 is killing blow).
8) Avoid Stand and Shoot. If you're facing a big unit to your front, you should only stand and shoot if you think you might panic the big unit after killing the eagle (say, you have doom and darkness on the big block). Lone eagles do not get hard cover for being behind another unit. They have to be physically 50% obscured, just like every other unit of 1 in the game, like dragons, hydras, and chariots. Again, a 2+ save skink chief will survive a stand and shoot much better than an eagle. If said eagle was charging into my skink horde, I might stand and shoot at it. Hitting on 6's with 20 shots and poison should kill the eagle and force a panic check on the friendly infantry. If the infantry pass the panic, I can always then choose to flee from the infantry charge
9) Redirecting example is funny. It counts on, as the poster said, "Lets say due to either inexperience or Frenzy he overruns". If you're counting on inexperience or poorly supported frenzied death stars, you'll be winning anyway.
With all that said, some of the ideas are pretty good.
The long charge protection is nice. If one of your infantry blocks does make a long charge, having a flyer to block the enemy on the flank is very useful.
For anything that is a stalling action, the Chief is going to be stupidly better at it (again, 2+ armor at 89 points).
For anything that involves the flyer making attacks, the Chief is going to be much better at it (twice as many attacks, high strength).
For anything that involves sacrificing the unit entirely, the Great Eagle is better, as he's cheaper.
If 9th edition has ally rules (like 40K), I'd take lizardmen flyers over the great eagles. Both are good, but packing an armor save and having double the fighting power is totally worth the 56% cost increase.
-Matt
Lizardmatt said:
To be fair, just bare in mind that the tactica was written in 2010 and, although updated since then, not since the new High Elf book dropped. Some of the ideas may be off, but I still think that its a solid guide to redirecting in general, and redirecting with lone flying models in particular.