8th Ed. Saurus or cohorts vs O&G

[david l]

I'm going to have a couple games in a league against Orcs & Goblins with sizes around 2000 points, and I'm not sure what to take for core - Saurus or skink cohorts with Kroxigors. Because of some league rules, I will have only one or maybe two small skink units (probably skirmishers), and I need to get 400+ points of core from either Saurus or skinks with Kroxigors. Which is likely better against O&G? Unhappily, the two O&G players can field just about anything from the book, and I have no idea what they will bring. That may mean there is no good answer to my question, but I'm open to any reasoning you would provide.


League rules in more detail:
The general restriction is max 25% things that can shoot, and everything in our book with a skink can shoot. I got an exception to field skink cohorts with attached Kroxigors without their javelins (must include 1+ Kroxigor), and Stegadons only count 80 points each to that shooting limit. So 2 or 3 stegs at around 2000 points leave me with roughly 250 points of "other skinks".
On the plus side, monsters get more armour, monsters help you win the roll to choose sides and can earn scenario bonus points, and no war machine does more than D3 wounds. Also anyone can buy the monsters from Transformation of Kadon as normal monsters as rares at various point costs, so I might replace an Ancient Stegadon with a Fire Dragon (400 points) sometime.

 

[Stonecutter]

Against O&G you are generally better off with saurus. Skrox will give away far too much combat res against even gobbos and since the gobbos are half the price of skinks you will definitely end up on the losing end. Needless to say, skinks die in droves against any orc units, especially during the first round when they are +1 strength.

 

[Skinnyboy]

I would say go with Saurus for your combat blocks but also include several skirmisher units for harassment and a couple 10 man units of cohorts for cheap redirecting, throw away units. You should have no problem reaching 400pts of core.

What lore are you planning to run?

 

[Scalenex]

Skroxigor would probably be slightly better against elite units like Black Orcs because they die at roughly the same rate as Saurus so 5 points a loss is better than 11 points. Against Trolls, the Arachnorok and other heavies, Skroxigor would probably be better because the hits given up would be cheap, you'd be immune to enemy stomps and the S6 Kroxigor hits can bring down the big critters.

Against units other than Black Orcs, Trolls, and the larger monsters, the Kroxigors S6 hits would go to waste, ESPECIALLY if the Kroxigors end up fighting goblins. Saurus would be more efficient at dicing up goblins and lesser orc units.

Whatever you bring, be careful with Savage Orcs and try to arrange things to win CR the first turn. If they keep their Frenzy, you will likely lose any protacted battle with them.

 

[Eladimir]

I agree with Scalenex.
Saurus againist base troops, skrox againist black orcs and up.
Can you bring a block of both and go over on core?
Our core is actually pretty damn good no need to hit minimum like High elves.

 

[david l]

but also include several skirmisher units for harassment and a couple 10 man units of cohorts for cheap redirecting, throw away units.

As I said, the league rules severely restrict my ability to take those units. I get around 250 points on things that can shoot, excluding stegadons and skinks with Kroxigors, and my highest priority is likely a couple Salamanders.

Can you bring a block of both and go over on core?

I could, but since my baby stegadons have 2+ armour and my ancient can have 1+, I want to bring two or three of those.

 

[ADustyMan]

Is the Lizardman book the only one restricted like that? If it is, that seems pretty unfair to me.


Take the Salamanders then anyways, Orcs and Gobbos mostly have average and low leadership, if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Skinnyboy]

Salamanders count as skinks? and do skrox units count toward that 250 point limit? If so either way you look at it your going to have to get some saurus in there, not that thats a bad thing just make sure you pick your targets well as Scalenex mentioned earlier.

 

[Scalenex]

Is the Lizardman book the only one restricted like that? If it is, that seems pretty unfair to me.

Restriction seem to hit Lizardmen disproportionately hard. I have idea to streamline things.

"To simply things, Lizardmen are restricted to only three units that start with S"

 

[david l]

Sorry about that, I have editted the initial post to be more clear on the league restrictions.
Basically all shooting is restricted, but I got permission to field cohorts with Kroxigors without javelins. On the plus side, monsters are better, so I want to field extra stegadons.

 

[Qupakoco]

Basically all shooting is restricted, but I got permission to field cohorts with Kroxigors without javelins.

That's a pretty lame restriction. I highly recommend that you argue that the Skinks should only be worth 3 points a piece now, since they no longer have poison or ranged attacks. They are pretty much just fast Goblins. 4 points a piece at the most.

 

[ADustyMan]

Yeah, you need to get a point reduction.

You could also run an entirely saurus army and just go beat the hell out of some orcs and gobbos.

 

[Lawot]

I was looking at the O&G rulebook with my friend and usual battle partner, and we were remarking how similar upgraded Savage Orcs and Saurus are - leading us to play a battle of Orcs only against Saurus only. And just to further focus the theme, we did no magic, no shooting - a pure slugfest. It was surprisingly fun. A couple of things I found:

1. We usually say Temple Guard aren't worth their points without a Slann; but in this context, they absolutely were. Granted, they had my Scar-Vet BSB and Gor-Rok with them, but the Savage Orc Boar Boy Big 'Uns that charged them had Gorbad Ironclaw. My Temple Guard beat the pants off the Savage Orcs. Well, they would have if the Savage Orcs were wearing pants to begin with...

2. A deep unit of Saurus (9 ranks) with spears was really helpful - if the Savage Orc Big 'Un unit hadn't had an Orc Warboss, I would've won that combat in round 2, in spite of their Frenzy. As it was, I lost the first round (Choppas, unsurprising), fought a draw on the next two rounds, and finally lost and broke when I got flank-charged by Black Orcs.

All this to say, Orcs can be a match for Saurus - but only when they are as upgraded as can be (Savage Orc Big 'Uns with two hand weapons). I planned to get hit first, and planned to lose the first round of combat, and designed my army accordingly, with big, stubborn combat blocks.