8th Ed. Saurus: Hand Weapons vs. Spears

[DragoonZero0]

Hey Everyone,

I looked and didn't see a topic on this particular issue. I think this one is an important debate from a tactical perspective.

Our guys go last. That is a fact. So the spear/HW debate basically boils down to: Is it better to suffer more casualties upfront and then hit back with more attacks (if didn't charge and spears)? or Is better to have better protection(parry save) and hit back with only 2 ranks?

I know the spears are additional equip so you can still benefit from the HW's if needed. However, I (like many of you) take 2 big blocks of saurus which means I can save 50 pts if I don't get the spears. That is 30 points shy of a sallie! (haha)

Anyway. In 7th it was obvious. I took spears and you could even do MSU spears and it was awesome. Now the debate is on again. I have been running a mix and don't see a clear winner yet.

What is your experience?

 

[wolfmage]

I get annoyed as even with HW/SH my Saurus are generally avoided when armed with spears I always seem to have to charge even when my opponent has no shooting. As such my saurus rarely get to do anything.

 

[n810]

well it was a bit of a no brainer choice in 7th but not it's a real tough decision,
basicly it comes dow to weather you want the unit to be more offensive or defencive.

Ps. spears tend to work better in the larger units. (6x3) or (10x4) you get the idea....

 

[Gojira]

I know the spears are additional equip so you can still benefit from the HW's if needed. However, I (like many of you) take 2 big blocks of saurus which means I can save 50 pts if I don't get the spears. That is 30 points shy of a sallie! (haha)

Unfortunately it's different now in 8th. But it's an incredibly easy one to miss.
Basically, if you have a special weapon of any kind (special is anything that's not a hand weapon) you must use it over your hand weapon at all times. So if you take a spear, you're giving up the parry ward for the entire game.

I've been running blocks with no spears the past while, mainly because I'm not running wide and thus not loosing that much 3rd rank attacks. Basically, I'm at either 16 as opposed to 21 attacks when running 5 wide, and 19 as opposed to 25 when 6 wide. So, I'm not loosing that many attacks, but I'm mostly steadfast, and depending on what I'm charging, those ward saves can win combats.

If I charge something like a high elf block, if I have spears, I'll get an extra 6 attacks or so. Not all of them will wound and hit, maybe 2 wounds after all the rolls. Basically, I would need to make 2 ward saves to break even, and if I make more than that, then I'm actually gaining combat resolution, so it's technically more offensive than spears. Because with VPs in 8th now, the only way to get points for a unit is wiping them out. So settling for killing a 2 more dudes isn't as appealing as winning combat and wiping out on the pursuit.

All that being said, a few of my friends use saurus spear blocks and they are good in slightly different situations. It really depends on how you play.

 

[Xul]

based on my observation in several games, the parry save kicks in quite often and is very good against higher S attacks. and you save the points at the same time.

 

[Glen_Savet]

I take a unit of 20 with hw/s in case I need a unit to sit in a tower, and a unit of 30 with spears for a mean mean anvil.

 

[Gojira]

Surely having a ward save would make the unit a better 'anvil'. Having an extra 5 or 6 attacks when you are charged might not even translate to as much combat resolution as a 6+ ward.

I've gone over this already, but I'll condense it down. An extra rank of attacks, say 5 or 6, will get you maybe 2 or 3 wounds before armour saves. That just a guestimate as saurus only have WS3, so on average will be hitting on 4s most of the time. Now imagine you're rolling a ward save for every wound you just received in combat. 2 or 3 saves and you're breaking even in terms of combat resolution, and for 1 point per model cheaper.

 

[Glen_Savet]

Your mathhammer is all well and good Gojira, but playing lore of light as I do, this works for me. And that's what I'm basing this on because that's what was asked for.

 

[Gojira]

I'm not entirely sure how lore of light changes much. An anvil with a ward seems better to me. Even with speed of light, 5 or 6 attacks hitting on 3s doesn't seem worth the trade off.

 

[Glen_Savet]

Well, your opponent is also hitting on 5's instead of 3's or 4's. And you're generally going first, so those extra attacks are chewing through return attacks more rapidly.

 

[Gojira]

With stepping up it doesn't matter. If no one breaks after the first turn, it's going to be the usual 8th edition race to expand frontage until something gets slammed into the flank.

 

[SeBM]

I used HW/Shield Saurus for the 1st time last night vs Chaos Daemons and I must say they did a terrific job. I will always field 1 unit of each equipment type since they both have their use.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

I run Lore of Light on my Slann and I run hand weapon shield Saurus and am loving them. I find that the 6+ ward is very helpful in keeping your units alive and I think the trade off for having less attacks is well worth it. Plus you do not even get the additional attacks if you charge which means those points are completely wasted. I can see an arguement for them if running them in large units of 25+ models, but the extra attacks are just negated to quickly if you lose models to shooting or magic before combat.

 

[JohnMavrick]

One has to talor the unit for the purpose it is meant for. If you want a hammer unit for flank charges I go with spears almost 9 times of 10. But for anvil units the HW/S units are priceless. I myself have a unit of 23 S/S which I put a scar-vet BSB in and two units of 18 with HW/S.