8th Ed. Saurus Block Formation

[shelman]

Hi guys,

I've just expanded my Saurus block to 40 lizards strong and was wondering what the best way to field them would be?

Currently, I normally field 24 in a 6X4 block.

For 40, there is the temptation of going 10X4 for the horde, but with the large base size, I was wondering if 8X5 would be better as you get a similar number of attacks, but the extra all important rank.

Let me know what you think...

 

[Rettile]

If you use spears you attack with 4 ranks, but since saurus warriors are only I1 you could lose a rank before you even have the chance to strike! Fielding them 4x10 has more sense if you use hw+shield, but if you wanna more attacks you better give them spears and field them in non-horded formation IMO

 

[Pinktaco]

I think 30 is a good number for our core at 2500pts. It gives you enough saurus to either be a decent anvil (5 wide, 6 deep, HW/S) or an alright-ish hammer with spears. The rest of your points can appropriately be used on skinks.

Do remember though that spears cannot get the extra rank when they charge.

The reason why I dislike 40 saurus w/ spears is because you essentially need 50 guys to do it. Artillery, magic and more than likelyt hitting last will mean that before these guys get to strike they won't be at full number. This means that with a 40 model spear horde you're gambling whether or not you can actually cross the board + hit at an initiative where you don't lose models and thus attacks in the first round of combat. It's not going to happen.

So 40 guys is in my book a no-go, 50? That's 580pts in one units which is still "just" WS3, S4, I1. I mean.. That's more than I usually spend on my templeguard units (495pts at 30 models, with FC and razor banner). It's just ridiculous becuase saurus aren't THAT efficient.

Relying on magic to lower enemy initiative or boost your own is never a safe bet for various reasons.


However, I'm not telling you to not do this, if you really want to just go ahead, I'm just stating my point of view and why I wouldn't do it.
Personally I usually go with 30 saurus warriors and 30 templeguards, but some might swear to 24 of both, so it's a matter of preference.

Also - should you consider the 50 model unit do consider that for the same amount of points you can have 30 saurus and 40 skinks in cohort to go along. So yeah, just a little something for you to take with you.

 

[GreatEscape_13]

In my non-Lizardmen experience (newish to Lizards here) I find that large base 25mm infantry work particularly well in 6 wide formations, so I would stick with what you've got. Any wider and you're really not getting much benefit unless playing other six-wide larges (Chaos of all stripes, WE Dryads, and Orcs). I would stick with 36 in a tidy 6x6 block, and consider those last four an investment in your next block of saurus warriors (or conversion/decor fodder).

When moving up to that scale, be sure to inform your opponents about your 6x6 "Cube of Doom" (I know it's a square, calling it a cube will annoy any math-minded folks). Keep referring to the threat that this new formation causes: how it's still six wide, takes way more to reduce your rank bonus, fights well because they have lots of attacks, is great for reforming to face sideways as needed because it takes up the same space, etc. etc. Conveniently leave out the whole "WS 3, Initiative 1" parts. Then watch as your opponents commit to destroying your now harder-to-destroy because of extra bodies unit.

My thoughts at least.

Cheers.

Andrew

 

[Scalenex]

My rule of thumb

Musicians are your friend. You need a vague sense of what Saurus Warriors outclass and what they don't. If you clearly outclass the enemy, take the maximum ranks that will reach base to base contact. If they clearly outclass you, take ranks five wide to maximize CR and steadfast. If you aren't sure, take six wide ranks (I am slowly moving to the idea that if I'm on the fence I should treat my opponent as superior foe and take max ranks).

Even if it gets you more attacks against a weak foe I'd suggest not using horde formation unless you can get 9 or 10 models into base contact with the enemy (such as facing an Orc horde). The more your Sauri stick out on the side, the more you are asking to be flanked.

 

[Zwuppie]

Well if you really want to use 40 saurus warriors you can use the musician to make a reform if necessary!

As Scalenex mentioned before:

Musicians are your friend.

If you are playing against 20mm bases you have to play in 8x5, else 10x4! I've been using 40 saurus warriors very much, but mostly they don't do a lot in a battle, because I was using magic the limits.

Now I often uses 30 warriors in a 5x6 formation! Many ranks, so steadfast all the way and they have to slay many model before you lose attacks!

When moving up to that scale, be sure to inform your opponents about your 6x6 "Cube of Doom" (I know it's a square, calling it a cube will annoy any math-minded folks). Keep referring to the threat that this new formation causes: how it's still six wide, takes way more to reduce your rank bonus, fights well because they have lots of attacks, is great for reforming to face sideways as needed because it takes up the same space, etc. etc. Conveniently leave out the whole "WS 3, Initiative 1" parts. Then watch as your opponents commit to destroying your now harder-to-destroy because of extra bodies unit.

As Andrew wrote above, a unit of 6x6 would be very powerfull against all types of bases! Always have your maximum number of attacks and you have to suffer 18 casualities before you lose attacks (if using spears, which I recommend with these numbers).

And some of you mentioned the Initiative 1.. We're playing lizardmen.. so we have magic (Slann with High Magic) or other ways to boost like a Bastiladon. If you don't want to boost.. you could degrade the enemies initiative (Slann with Wandering Deliberations, Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma)! So enough opportunities to let them rip the enemy a part I guess^^!!

 

[Sleboda]

A comment I feel I should add here is that if you are going 8-wide, go 10-wide.

It's the "old in for a penny, in for a pound" thing.

Most of the time, I would think 5 or 6 models wide is your standard formation. Good ranks, good longevity. Good enough.

If you go out to 8 models, you don't gain much, you are harder to maneuver, and you might as well get the horde benefit.

 

[Andy06r]

30 with spears, 40 with hw/s, 24 with hw/s.

Good unit sizes, good formations, and leaves a little extra core for two units of skirmishers.

 

[Putzfrau]

I almost never go wider then 6.

Just don't feel like it adds enough. Want the ranks. Saurus are grinders. Ranks with hw+shield and grind grind grind.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Best way to use 40 saurus is to get 20 more and run a block of 60.
I've run it 4 or 5 times now, always with very good success. I just stick in a character and run up the middle. It cuts a huge swath through the center of the table, killing units and force units to move out of the way.
I find if I can make my opponent move sideways, it gives my specials and rares more than enough to to wrack up the kills.

Most opponents don't what to do about 60 saurus with a character or two barreling down on them.
And it looks awesome.

 

[Putzfrau]

Best way to use 40 saurus is to get 20 more and run a block of 60.
I've run it 4 or 5 times now, always with very good success. I just stick in a character and run up the middle. It cuts a huge swath through the center of the table, killing units and force units to move out of the way.
I find if I can make my opponent move sideways, it gives my specials and rares more than enough to to wrack up the kills.

Most opponents don't what to do about 60 saurus with a character or two barreling down on them.
And it looks awesome.

how does it not just get avoided or destroyed with magic?

i see a block of 60 saurus and i'm thinking its only got movement 4 with an initiative of 1/strength 4. every single "big" spell in the game is going to do a ton of damage to it.

 

[GCPD]

I'm a big fan of using 5 wide as an anvil and view them as a delivery system/static cr for a Saurus character (Oldblood or Scar vet, mounted or on foot it isn't really important) to give the unit some punch. A couple of times I've had some success with a scar vet who just had some cheap gear - biting blade, dragon helm, pigeon plucker pendant and iron curse icon. He can be be surprisingly useful against all the flying heroes and monsters about these days.