8th Ed. Salamanders

[Adamastor]

Hello.

I'm new both to this forum and Lizardmen, but since I got a Lizardmen army in a trade, I thought the beginning of a new edition was the right time to start playing and I'm hoping you guys can help me out.

The army has 6 salamanders. Are they any good in 8th? How do you usually use them?

I was thinking of puting my Slann in a Skink Cohort (since the army has loads of skinks and only 16 saurus). Is it a good idea, and if so, what do you think is the minimum size of the unit?

I only have a Stegadon. Is it worth using only one, or should I get another one?

As you can see, I'm a bit lost, hope you guys can help me out.

 

[Eagleblaze]

6 Salamanders are grand, you can run them in 2 groups of 3.

Don't put the slann with the skinks, that is pure madness, just make him ethereal and so immune to non-magic damage and run him solo.

 

[Caneghem]

6 Salamanders are grand, you can run them in 2 groups of 3.

Don't put the slann with the skinks, that is pure madness, just make him ethereal and so immune to non-magic damage and run him solo.

If you come up against dwarves with magical warmachines, you will want to hide the slann in a unit so that he can get a look out sir roll.

 

[Kurlin]

6 Salamanders are grand, you can run them in 2 groups of 3.

Don't put the slann with the skinks, that is pure madness, just make him ethereal and so immune to non-magic damage and run him solo.

If you come up against dwarves with magical warmachines, you will want to hide the slann in a unit so that he can get a look out sir roll.

You can actually be within 3 inches of a unit and get a basic look out sir of 4+ now I believe. Also if your Slann is the BSB then you do not want him in a unit of skinks, cause if they flee from combat he stays behind and dies automatically. And it is not as easy to avoid combat with the huge potential charge ranges.

 

[strewart]

Hmmm I thought you didn't get LoS anymore if base size was different.. Or its reduced?

 

[Caeldan]

Okay... something I haven't been able to figure out.
Are people just realizing now how good Salamanders were from before? Or is there some rule I'm missing that really make Salamanders stand out from 7th to 8th?

Rules i'm aware of:
1. No more partials - this means that you'll be hitting a few more guys per unit you were shooting at. It was a 4+ before, so 50/50 chance... and I'll admit I usually had pretty good luck on rolling my partials with salamanders before.
2. Some horde size blocks - this is the only real thing I can think of, as you'll have more of a chance to hit with your template, especially if you get their flank.
3. March and shoot - This adds an extra 6" of threat range, and so a bit more of an opportunity to properly place yourself for a flanking shot.

Negative rules:
1. Classed as a war beast - they're scared of flaming attacks.
2. Changes to skirmisher rules means the ranking up is different and no more 360 line of sight.

I haven't had an opportunity to read the new monsters and handlers section though to see if there are changes to how the skinks rank up in combat (as before they were always classed as being in the second rank).

But before I've always had my points worth from a salamander, and would like to know if there's anything else I'm missing on how they work.

 

[Kurlin]

Okay... something I haven't been able to figure out.
Are people just realizing now how good Salamanders were from before? Or is there some rule I'm missing that really make Salamanders stand out from 7th to 8th?

Rules i'm aware of:
1. No more partials - this means that you'll be hitting a few more guys per unit you were shooting at. It was a 4+ before, so 50/50 chance... and I'll admit I usually had pretty good luck on rolling my partials with salamanders before.
2. Some horde size blocks - this is the only real thing I can think of, as you'll have more of a chance to hit with your template, especially if you get their flank.
3. March and shoot - This adds an extra 6" of threat range, and so a bit more of an opportunity to properly place yourself for a flanking shot.

Negative rules:
1. Classed as a war beast - they're scared of flaming attacks.
2. Changes to skirmisher rules means the ranking up is different and no more 360 line of sight.

I haven't had an opportunity to read the new monsters and handlers section though to see if there are changes to how the skinks rank up in combat (as before they were always classed as being in the second rank).

But before I've always had my points worth from a salamander, and would like to know if there's anything else I'm missing on how they work.

Well as the original poster is new to lizardmen questioning how good salamanders are is quite reasonable. The no partials is HUGE, the way I roll it at least doubles the units I hit.

Also unless I missed a rule somewhere, now that unit strength is gone the salamanders are also now -1 to shoot at as a skirmisher.

Don't have my book on me but from what I remember Mosters and handlers adds the fact that the handlers can attack in CC, and any wounds are distributed like shooting. So your opponent rolls against salamanders stats etc... and if they wound you roll to see if its a handler or the salamander. This is a boost, as we already rolled on the monster and handler chart when all the handlers died anyway.

 

[Kurlin]

Hmmm I thought you didn't get LoS anymore if base size was different.. Or its reduced?

I am not sure, I thought it was different troop types, like mounted or Monstrous infantry. I will have to look at that when I get home.

 

[Gavrock]

You can actually be within 3 inches of a unit and get a basic look out sir of 4+ now I believe.

Nothing like that stated in the BRB. Roll a D6, result of 1 the Champion/Character doesn't here it and subsequently the hit is resolved against him. 2 - 6 the Champion/Character is pushed out of the way and the hit is resolved on an individual rank and file from the unit. The only stipulation it seems to state is that it can't be taken on any units that are less than 5 models.

 

[Kurlin]

You can actually be within 3 inches of a unit and get a basic look out sir of 4+ now I believe.

Nothing like that stated in the BRB. Roll a D6, result of 1 the Champion/Character doesn't here it and subsequently the hit is resolved against him. 2 - 6 the Champion/Character is pushed out of the way and the hit is resolved on an individual rank and file from the unit. The only stipulation it seems to state is that it can't be taken on any units that are less than 5 models.

May have just been a rumor I read on warseer, will double check the book tonight.

 

[Rated G]

You can actually be within 3 inches of a unit and get a basic look out sir of 4+ now I believe.

Nothing like that stated in the BRB. Roll a D6, result of 1 the Champion/Character doesn't here it and subsequently the hit is resolved against him. 2 - 6 the Champion/Character is pushed out of the way and the hit is resolved on an individual rank and file from the unit. The only stipulation it seems to state is that it can't be taken on any units that are less than 5 models.

Sorry, this is incorrect. You do, in fact, get a look out sir roll, if within 3 inches of a unit of the same unit type (infantry to infantry) that has at least 5 ranks and file models.

 

[Gavrock]

Sorry, this is incorrect. You do, in fact, get a look out sir roll, if within 3 inches of a unit of the same unit type (infantry to infantry) that has at least 5 ranks and file models.

Don't apologise, if that's the ruling I'm thrilled, I just can't find anything like that written in the BRB. Could you quote the page you found this?

 

[Dreadgrass]

Other boosts on Sallies (Just read the book for the 1st time last night, but as I understand it)

You seem to randomise wounds on monsters and handlers after saves, so they essentially give the sallies a 5+ward of hitting them instead!

The skinks cannot be attacked and may attack anything their sallie is touching, so its easy to maximise attacks in CC and the enemy must measure range etc. to the sallies, not just clip a handler.

 

[Kurlin]

Other boosts on Sallies (Just read the book for the 1st time last night, but as I understand it)

You seem to randomise wounds on monsters and handlers after saves, so they essentially give the sallies a 5+ward of hitting them instead!

The skinks cannot be attacked and may attack anything their sallie is touching, so its easy to maximise
attacks in CC and the enemy must measure range etc. to the sallies, not just clip a handler.

Yup that's the monsters and handlers rule. Though the randomized wounds will be only in CC, as they already randomize hits for ranged attacks.

 

[Kurlin]

Sorry, this is incorrect. You do, in fact, get a look out sir roll, if within 3 inches of a unit of the same unit type (infantry to infantry) that has at least 5 ranks and file models.

Don't apologise, if that's the ruling I'm thrilled, I just can't find anything like that written in the BRB. Could you quote the page you found this?

Page 96-97 under shooting at lone characters. I knew I wasn't completely crazy

 

[Gor-rok]

Awww man... They show Masque getting Look Out Sir...

Now I'll never kill it.

 

[Kurlin]

Hmmm I thought you didn't get LoS anymore if base size was different.. Or its reduced?

I am not sure, I thought it was different troop types, like mounted or Monstrous infantry. I will have to look at that when I get home.

Page 99 under Unusual Shooting, if they are the same unit type the can get look out sir, so a Slann in skink cohorts still gets lookout sir even though his base is a lot bigger. And of course it is the same for being 3" away from a unit of the same type.

 

[Maedhros]

Important note about that new 3" of same troop type Look out sir roll. While it does work it only confers a 4+ (don't have book in front of me but I beleive that's it) look out sir as opposed to the usual 2+ when the character is inside of the unit. It explains this by saying that it's harder to yell a warning and push your comander out of the way when he's a few feet away as opposed to standing right next to you.

 

[n810]

Oh wait the handlers can attack...
I couldn't find that rule anywhere..

 

[Kurlin]

Oh wait the handlers can attack...
I couldn't find that rule anywhere..

It is directly in the Monsters and Handlers rule. They can attack anyone in b2b contact with their monster. And this is only for CC, as they are to busy keeping control to manage any sort of ranged attack.