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8th Ed. Salamanders and their spiky cousins

lordkingcrow
Temple Guard

lordkingcrow

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So I've been playing Lizardmen off and on for a good 9 years now and I can honestly say I have never used salamanders or razordons. Last edition I contemplated them and probably would have eventually purchased a few to try, but since the rule change, I just don't see the appeal. Can anyone shed some light on these troops? Am I missing out on something great or are they really just "meh" troops?
 
Razordons are okay but overpriced given their terrible BS.
I like the bastards but cant seem to get them to work for me.

Sallies though..

how can you not see the appeal in S4 Flame templates that cause panic? :D

what do you typically play against?
 
hello there! from what i have read about, salamanders seem to be key to alot of peoples lists, mostly due to the fact that they can quite reliably soften down big blocks before our fighters get a turn allowing our slow moving troops win combats quite well. they are even relatively tricky to shoot down given that they have skirmish and that 'ward save' (skink save) they have.
now razordons are a whole different kettle of fish, these i find (and by the way my faviourite unit) are best taken in larger units and provide a more chaff clearance or if the group is large enough (say 5 or 6) can comfortably win some combats as well, given that they are strength 5 in combat, their stand and shoot (being quick to fire) can be quite deadly when paired with BS increases/shooting to hit increases and can knock off some wounds on lower armoured foes i have found.
mind you i am sort of new ish but i do believe there is a tactia somewhere on here that explains it much better than i.
tdlr: salamanders are excellent for bigger troop size armies
razordons can be excellent but do need higher points investments (and money!) to run
 
I'm actually a little embarrassed now that you guys point this stuff out... I don't know why I've always passed over them. Usually I play against Ogres, Brets, High Elves, and WoC, but we are starting up a league with some big interest and lots of diverse armies. I think I overlooked them because my opponents generally have high toughness or great armor saves, but even so, I think I'll give them a shot, especially against those fragile elves...
 
I think my favorite thing about salamanders is the panic check. I usually deploy mine towards the flanks and there's usually something outside of BSB range to pick on. A number of times I've only done one or two wounds, but they still run away. My favorite trick is to walk between worlds a huge pack of them and just try to melt something first turn. I never leave home without mine, but that's because there are lots of zombies and skaven slaves at my shop.
 
I enjoy my razordons. I run them in a group of four. As it's said above, they're pretty good at clearing away that annoying chaff and can hold their own in selective combats. But, it's when you have magic buffing them they begin to really shine. I run a Focus of Mystery Slann, which means that hand of glory can increase their ballistic skill. If you're able to get wither off on a unit, along with hand of glory, then they can kiss it goodbye. These guys single-handledly took out all the ironguts in a gutstar over the course of the game. Using walk-between-worlds or just moving them into an enemies flank is a real killer too, as people tend to underestimate them in combat.
 
Razordons are incredible for Frenzy bait, espeeeecially if you get a Hand of Glory on them.

With five Razordons & minor magic support, I took six Skullcrushers to town before they really even saw combat.

I march them into max charge range at the veeery edge of LoS, and he failed his Frenzy Ld. Once facing the center of the board, they must now turn nearly 45 degrees and face the right corner. Ouch - they must charge toward the edge.

I stand and shoot w/ HoG ready. Rerolling 2s and misfires. 34 shots. 15 hit. 10 wound. Kill 2 (lucky!). He fails his charge, no Ld test for Panic. Moves forward 4".

He curses, "Ugh... I wish they didn't have Frenzy. They don't even need it!!"

I back up 3", scatter other forces so that the Razordons stay in the Skullcrushers' focal point. Long charge range again. My magic phase, I HoG & Iceshard. Some misfires - 18 shots. 10 hit. 6 wounds. Kill 1. Drop HoG, pick up Miasma.

Next turn, he rolls Ld w/ -1. Fails. Charges. Stand and shoot. Rerolling misfires, 2s & 4s - 38 shots. 21 hits. 11 wounds. Kill 2. Fails the charge with low rolls. Moves forward 6". Combat is coming after this result, and I know it.

Sure enough, nearby DP & Chim are now rerouting away from infantry to fix this problem, and opponent is considering breath weapons on Razordons -- this split the board in half, opening up the middle. That's a victory in itself.

My phase, I charge & make it (rolled a 3 for turbo HoG prior, so 9" move + Swiftstride).

I WBW my Bastiladon in the magic phase so that it blocks a double charge to the rear. Opponent fails dispel (I got really lucky, rolled 4 5's. Wound up not even mattering though).

Then, I force turbo-Miasma on Skulls, having dropped HoG. Goes off with IF, rolled a 6 for effects.

Combat, 'Dons are hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, and going first - the last one drops. Even at 4s and 4s, it would've been dead.

I thought, "Welp... he got what he wanted - Skullcrushers don't have Frenzy anymore!" xD

I blow through (making a very long charge for DP/Chim), and the WoC player is ready to throw his models. Doesn't even want to charge the Bastiladon - no point.
 
Taking 6 wounds on skullcrushers is IMO incredible lucky and not seomthofn to base a potential purchase off I'm afraid. 15 hits should've been roughly 7-8 wounds and another past the 1+ armour save, so 1 wound. On average.
I feel that razordons should've had armour piercing as well. I mean why not? They're shooting spikes ffs!

With that said, salamanders are more or less auto include in my lists. The only armies they're kinda bad against is Ogres and warrior of chaos, otherwise they can be godly. There are two human armies, 3 elfs and skavens have T3 models. So a little less than half will be seriously wounded if hit by the fire template. If positioned correctly it can easily do 10-15 hits. So imagine 15 hits again T3 with heavy armour. That's roughly 8-9 wounds from a single salamander. Now imagine if those where executioners. Boom.

Warriors of chaos are too fast, too tough and too well protected. Ogres have T4, 3 wounds each. Kinda meh.

Against other T4 models such as dwarfs and orcs they can still be devastating. See a big horde of 40 models? You can probably take off 10-15 models with 2 salamanders before they reach combat.

Remember that small units (20mm) are hurt the most. So dwarfs may be tough, but you can hit a lot of those little buggers. For instance - say two salamanders hit home and hits 25 models in total. That's 10 wounds after armour save (heavy armour). How expensive are hammers?

The good thing is that they have decent fighting capacity. 2 models with all skinks (4) have 8 skinks, 4 S5 attacks and 2 stomps. So it's not super good, but decent.

I usually take two and place them in each their unit. Should one be charged the other might walk free ;)
 
One last thing: I believe the optimal range to place the salamanders is something like 8" away.
 
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