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TOW Review of Lizardmen Army Book

I agree on mostly but not to increase carnosaur points. Come on you have movement 7 and nothing else good. WS 3!! Not 4.
If you give him WS 4 and M8 then he can be worth 200 or more point. As well as armour save 4+

About Slann another possibility would be to have the same cost but at his level is 5. It would be awesome and right for background.
Moonsoon -they should remove the random movement, at least for the first round/movement
 
Kalisto said:
I agree on mostly but not to increase carnosaur points. Come on you have movement 7 and nothing else good. WS 3!! Not 4.
If you give him WS 4 and M8 then he can be worth 200 or more point. As well as armour save 4+

About Slann another possibility would be to have the same cost but at his level is 5. It would be awesome and right for background.
Moonsoon -they should remove the random movement, at least for the first round/movement
Click to expand...

Well there's a difference between trying to balance the army book and redesigning it the way I want. I'd like ranked up skinks, I'd like Skroxigor, I'd like the option for Slann inside TG to name a few. But right now I just want to see our list be halfway balanced

The Carnosaur absolutely rolls casual games, I think in 30 odd games it's died twice, and only once was legit when it was basically the last things standing (the other time it lost combat by 1 and stacked two break tests then barely fled). I think all monsters need point adjustments and it is no exception.

The WS4 is an interesting one, from a lore perspective I like that we are a low WS army. But I've recently been playing against chaos and WS7 is quite problematic for us, especially combined with the popular mark of Nurgle. So good feedback I think.

A level 5 Slann indeed would be a different way to take it. I still think we need 360 degrees of being able to cast.

Regarding Monsoon, I stand by C tier and that signature spells should be C tier. Ummm just to ask perhaps a silly question, you're aware that when you roll a "hit" on the scatter dice, it stays in one place?

Monsoon is very nice for blocking line of sights, preventing charges etc, but yeah as I mentioned I'd like the casting cost to go up by 1 to mean a standard level 4 at least needs a 6 to dispel it.

I guess that's the issue, when you play an army with shooting and cheap wizards (empire, Skaven, etc.) you often prefer it to scatter so you can drench, since it probably won't last long anyway. So I'm not certain your suggestion would make it better overall, certainly it would against chaos, lizardmen and those close combat armies that don't shoot
 
Regarding Monsoon, I stand by C tier and that signature spells should be C tier

Why??
Check O&G magic, Tzeentch Beastman. EVERYONE has much better than us. Even signature. We are not to change it anyway but I think it's important to reflect that some armies got a lot of power up compared to 8th that we ever imagine
 
Actually i'm using Tomb Kings, but I'm starting to feel the urge to come back to my cold blooded roots ;)
 
Kalisto said:
Regarding Monsoon, I stand by C tier and that signature spells should be C tier

Why??
Check O&G magic, Tzeentch Beastman. EVERYONE has much better than us. Even signature. We are not to change it anyway but I think it's important to reflect that some armies got a lot of power up compared to 8th that we ever imagine
Click to expand...

It's a fair question. The army book design and my opinions were not made to make us competitive against other armies at a tournament level. It was made to balance our individual units so that we can justify taking different models than carnosaurs, stegadons and skinks. So I am not playing "catch up" if other factions get great signature spells. And my personal belief is that the game would work better if spells are generally better than signature spells.

PS. Massive update in this mornings FAQ - Lore Familiar cannot be used to take a racial signature spell.

Killer Angel said:
Actually i'm using Tomb Kings, but I'm starting to feel the urge to come back to my cold blooded roots ;)
Click to expand...

Haha we would love to have you back!
 
imho

1. Saurus warriors (temple guard): need great weapon option.
2. Slann : remove large target, fly, arcane shield and make it 130pts.
3. Kroxigor: need the old skinks+kroxigor formation
 
We had NEVER had so high leadership. So suggest a Slann with Ld 10 is both wrong and not tematic imho.
The real problem is too give back cold blooded with stupidity and remove like terror penalities in break tests. This would be balanced.
Saurus had never had Ld9. Same here. Skink hero may have Ld7, but not the caster.

Other thing you suggest are a bit too strong, like remove the limit of drop rocks once a game or blowpipe with quick shot.
  1. Disciplines of the Old Ones

    1. Significantly revised Wandering Deliberations

    2. Revised Becalming Cogitation by increasing dispel range boost from three to six inches.
You don't need it, bot are good. Becalming Cogitation range is fine but need a boost to dispel instead of the reroll.

However i am a bit surprise that you don't revise chameleon. They really need it. Like a permanent light cover and a deployment 6" from enemy as they had before. If you just focus to get back oldrules would be enough to us, trust me. Then Slann had +1 casting and dispelling for example in 6th and 7th.
 
Thanks for sharing your feedback and thoughts! My logic supporting the leadership increase for various units is driven by the change to the Cold-Blooded rule from previous editions of the game. Cold-Blooded now only applies to Fear, Panic or Terror tests, but used to apply to all leadership tests. Lizardmen have historically had low to average leadership scores across their units, however, Cold-Blooded was a strong game mechanic and made Lizardmen units very reliable. In fact, leadership was one of the army’s strengths in previous editions. Testing on leadership 9 with the cold-blooded rule was easily better than leadership 10 without this rule. I’m of the opinion In ToW, lizardmen leadership is now a liability and has altered the army’s playstyle from previous editions. Additionally, from a lore perspective I have a hard time imagining Lizardmen have weaker leadership than the following armies: High, Wood and Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs and Tomb Kings. Lizardmen leadership is essentially on par with Orcs or Empire.
 
The bloated lizard said:
Here's my revision of the Lizardmen army list.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nm3Z2c5zMQaTkaIl9T4yVH3HyJRSULO1/view?usp=drivesdk
Change log:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=112052158007047099341&rtpof=true&sd=true
Click to expand...

It's a good first draft. Bette than what have. My video sums up what I think, but I was to give your version "critical" feedback, it is

- the Slann needs 360degree vision to cast. If they have the rule "firing platform" at least, and ideally monstrous infantry is better.

- salamanders and razordons need help! Move & shoot on the salamanders are a start but no where near enough to make them viable

- I don't think Saurus need to go from 14 to 12? Maybe 13 I guess.
 
discomute said:
It's a good first draft. Bette than what have. My video sums up what I think, but I was to give your version "critical" feedback, it is


- salamanders and razordons need help! Move & shoot on the salamanders are a start but no where near enough to make them viable
Click to expand...
They should need both included costs for the 3 skinks (as it was before) as well as move & shoot. Razordon should need to do more hits because d3 is ridicolous (before was an artillery dice AND auto hit! We don't need to have the same but something in between should be balanced
 
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