7th Ed. Potent of Warding

[lazylizard]

does this save against magical attacks??

 

[Stegadeth]

The rule reads "any" and "ranged" and "originating from more than 12" away from the Engine".

It would grant the save to attacks that fit that criteria, including magical attacks.

 

[lazylizard]

thanks for the assurance. i had a dispute about that when i was playing last time.

 

[kroxigor01]

This came up in a recent game against a high elf player and we where both stumped. He cast Flames of the Phoenix on my Temple Guard with irrestistable force. Wether or not the shield worked (because the casting wizard was outside 12") or didn't work (the spell is hurting them from WITHIN the unit) was hard to decide on.

 

[Stegadeth]

This came up in a recent game against a high elf player and we where both stumped. He cast Flames of the Phoenix on my Temple Guard with irrestistable force. Wether or not the shield worked (because the casting wizard was outside 12") or didn't work (the spell is hurting them from WITHIN the unit) was hard to decide on.

That sounds like it is not a ranged attack then. I hear ranged and think shooting. So, magic missiles, darts, cannon, lightning bolts, etc. Setting a unit on fire isn't any sort of missile. I would have let it go off. Thanks for bringing that up though, it's an interesting angle!

 

[kroxigor01]

This came up in a recent game against a high elf player and we where both stumped. He cast Flames of the Phoenix on my Temple Guard with irrestistable force. Wether or not the shield worked (because the casting wizard was outside 12") or didn't work (the spell is hurting them from WITHIN the unit) was hard to decide on.

That sounds like it is not a ranged attack then. I hear ranged and think shooting. So, magic missiles, darts, cannon, lightning bolts, etc. Setting a unit on fire isn't any sort of missile. I would have let it go off. Thanks for bringing that up though, it's an interesting angle!

What about these ones:

Rule of Burning Iron? Technically the model is being scaulded by his own armour.
Wall of Fire?
Master of Stone and Master of Wood? These spells are never defined as a magic missiles, all they say is things "erupt from the ground" and attack the unit.


"...5+ ward from any ranged attacks that originate from more the 12" away from the Engine"

But what is a ranged attack? And is the 'origin' the model that fired/cast it or the centre of the blast/where the actual damaging effect is coming from?

 

[spacelizard]

This came up in a recent game against a high elf player and we where both stumped. He cast Flames of the Phoenix on my Temple Guard with irrestistable force. Wether or not the shield worked (because the casting wizard was outside 12") or didn't work (the spell is hurting them from WITHIN the unit) was hard to decide on.

That sounds like it is not a ranged attack then. I hear ranged and think shooting. So, magic missiles, darts, cannon, lightning bolts, etc. Setting a unit on fire isn't any sort of missile. I would have let it go off. Thanks for bringing that up though, it's an interesting angle!

What about these ones:

Rule of Burning Iron? Technically the model is being scaulded by his own armour.
Wall of Fire?
Master of Stone and Master of Wood? These spells are never defined as a magic missiles, all they say is things "erupt from the ground" and attack the unit.


"...5+ ward from any ranged attacks that originate from more the 12" away from the Engine"

But what is a ranged attack? And is the 'origin' the model that fired/cast it or the centre of the blast/where the actual damaging effect is coming from?

Going by the wording of Master of the Wood and Master of Stone, the target has to be within X distance of either the caster or the relevant terrain feature. As far as origin goes, I would treat the terrain feature like a skink priest that's channeling a magic missile from a slann. If the unit is in range of the terrain feature, but otherwise out of range of the caster, then the terrain feature is definitely the origin as far as the engine in concerned. If they're within the terrain feature, and therefore taking the extra damage because of it, then the terrain feature is also the origin. That, to me, is just common sense. Otherwise, if the target is close enough to either the terrain or the caster, then the casting player gets to choose.

Personally, I've never considered flames of the phoenix to be a "magic missile." Same thing with rule of burning iron and spirit of the forge. This is because I don't see the spell conjuring up any sort of "missile" and sending it at something, which is what a magical ranged attack IS. At least, that's always been my understanding, although now that you mention it, I DO see where the definition may get a little vague. Generally, ranged attack MEANS shooting, which in the case of magic, MEANS magic missiles.

 

[erians]

Generally, ranged attack MEANS shooting, which in the case of magic, MEANS magic missiles.

Not at all. Any ranged attacks means any form of damage from from further than 12" away in this case. Spirit of the forge has its origin from afar, the armor isnt the attacker, its just used by the attacker to cause damage so its still a magical attack with a range of 24". Same goes for the Nurgle sniping spell or Steal Soul from the Lore of Death, none are magic missles but both are ranged attacks.

Flames of the Phoenix on the other hand is a RiP spell, and should thus be treated differently (just like curst of years). Its not a direct damage spell which is what I assume GW mean when typing "attack". Im not sure if you get ward from the flames or not, but what happends if you cast it from wihtin 12" and then move outside 12"? Or vice versa.

 

[Bibamus]

what about the Commet of Cassandora?
the damage come from the marker when it lands but the source of the marker is at a range.
if the source is considered for the ward save, is it calculated at the point of casting or at the point of landing?
a wizard can be more than 12" away when it is cast but come within 12" on subsequent turns

 

[spacelizard]

Generally, ranged attack MEANS shooting, which in the case of magic, MEANS magic missiles.

Not at all. Any ranged attacks means any form of damage from from further than 12" away in this case. Spirit of the forge has its origin from afar, the armor isnt the attacker, its just used by the attacker to cause damage so its still a magical attack with a range of 24". Same goes for the Nurgle sniping spell or Steal Soul from the Lore of Death, none are magic missles but both are ranged attacks.

I'd buy that, but I can see nit-pickers disagreeing.

@bibamus: The attack is a giant rock falling from space; it's not coming from the wizard (in terms of trajectory). Fluff wise, it would always be coming from well outside the bubble of the Engine (it's falling from orbit, after all). For game purposes however, I think it's better to count the point of impact as the "origin" of the attack.

 

[walach]

isnt a 'ranged' attack simply anything that ISNT a CC attack? certainly i've always applied it to things like master of wood, rule of burning iron etc. makes sense to me anyway.

 

[erians]

Yes thats right, but the question is do you measure if the attacks is coming from within 12" of the steg that uses Portent of Warding from the woods or from the caster. Same goes for comet, flames and other damage RiP spells.