7th Ed. New lizardmen? Old lizardmen? Hmmmm....

[thesecondman]

Yo, Razordons are totally the opposite of useless.
New Book is better.

 

[Axolotl]

Allright, they might not be TOTALLY useless, but if you compare them with the former salamanders they are jokes.

 

[TheAncientOne]

*Sigh*
They downgraded salamanders because they added another- maybe not as good -similar type unit? Not really fair, is it?

 

[gorenut]

Def like the new book better. Its what really got me started back on Lizardmen (that and new Stegadon + Temple Guards). The book is so much more versatile and Saurus are at the awesomeness I had always expected.

I guess if I had a gripe.. it'd definitely be the Kroxigors... its just strange that this tower of muscle is at a lower strength of a Saurus Scar Vet thats half his size. As it stands now.. it doesn't seem like they really fulfill a role that Cold One Riders can't do better. They're pretty cool in Skink regiments.. but imagine how much cooler it'd be to have em protecting a flank from chariots (especially in a small skink squad). Other than that.. while I do think the Slanns are a much more viable choice now.. I'd still like to see something done to show how much better they are at magic than every other race.. I guess this could have been done with either our own lore... or atleast just one default spell that every Slann comes with. Finally.. on the note of the Slann.. certain special characters I think they should have left out all together.. like the Slann special characters. I'd prefer them to just be kept in fluff... being too powerful to be fielded on the battlefield. As it stands now.... having them in the book, usable.. kind of "cheapens" them. Perhaps they should have created a new Slann if they wanted to include a Slann special character... a younger one.

 

[TheAncientOne]

Yeah, it IS kind of pathetic that a krox has the str of a saurus warrior, but otherwise if they had str 7, they6'd be 9 w/ their weapons. In the next army book, maybe they could take out the weapons so that they could have a natural str of 6-8. It just seems wrong to have str 4 on them, I mean, a saurus could t3echnically wield those weapons, and have waaaay more attacks at str 6 in a unit.

 

[gorenut]

Well, I was thinking more in line with keeping them at strength 5 like they were in the last book. So they would be 7 with their weapons. I don't mind them being the same strength as a Scar Vet (as I'm sure the Scar Vet has been around longer+different corded muscles).

 

[TheAncientOne]

still, only one more strength than a warrior? Look at the size of those things!!! Maybe though.... that could be because their tough, multi-wound models...

 

[Barotok]

Man = ST3
Sarus = ST4
The same arguement could be made to say that Sarus are much stronger than the average man, thereby should be at least one more point of strength.

Giving the Kroxigor and extra strength makes sense, but in game terms I see the reason they had to drop their strength. I would agree that from a fluff perspective that they should have a little more strength. But Sarus are already incredibly strong creatures, just not as large as Kroxigors. Making them 8-9 STR with their GW would be exactly the opposite of what games workshop wanted to do with them. Part of the problem is that Games Workshop is having trouble showing exactly just how strong everything is without drastically altering game balance and forcing rule changes and updates to all books.

 

[strewart]

I guess if I had a gripe.. it'd definitely be the Kroxigors... its just strange that this tower of muscle is at a lower strength of a Saurus Scar Vet thats half his size.

You think thats strange? Think about this: A massive hulking kroxigor has the same strength as.... a skink chief....?? Now THAT is something seriously wrong. Why do the LM even need kroxigors in their culture if they are the same strength as saurus and some skinks? Surely the heavy work can be done by the smaller and cheaper (I'm thinking food here) creatures if they are the same strength anyway...

If GW had to reduce their strength so they couldn't be 7 anymore (which, lets face it, s7 for chariot munching is really why you take things like kroxigor) then they should have ditched the great weapons and given them a natural s6.

 

[gorenut]

Well, admittedly.. I still do look at the stats more abstractly. I take the combination of Strength and Attacks as the true form of their overall strength and damage potential. I mean.. I guess with that mindset.. its easier to believe.. but giving them a natural strength 6 would have been a good alternative as well (I'm guessing similar to Tomb King Ushabtis).

In any case.. I still take 1 Krox for my army.. just cause it looks cool to have one towering over the unit of skinks.

 

[TheAncientOne]

Surely the heavy work can be done by the smaller and cheaper (I'm thinking food here) creatures if they are the same strength anyway...

I know, I mean, Temple Gueard don't even NEED food... Maybe saurus don't either... Slann do... so probably skinks as well... and temple guard would definetly listen if a slann told them to work...

 

[salamander]

I like the old one more becouse there is really more stuf that has been made wourse than stuff theyres made better
I think the wourst thing is that the blessings have gonealmost completely out of the army book

 

[Elmquasmash]

The one thing i really do miss from the old book are the good fluff stories.. Really all they told us about in this book is the culture but i'd much rather hear about small battles and so on.. What would you rather read, the silmarilian or the actual lord of the rings books? What would you rather read, a book about science fiction or a book OF science fiction? Would you rather see the making of a movie or the movie itself? All the culture should be left to those first couple of sections and then they should leave the rest of the gray boxes to the fighting stories...

Spelling errors? i dint sea anny in teh bkoo... :/

The fact that kroxigors have a measly strength of 4 is a joke to the game! A hulking creature that can carry HUGE cubes of clay has the same strength as regular core troops? Its the dumbest thing i've heard of.. they should have at LEAST had strength 5 or been given base strength 6 with no GW... Charging through skinks was probably the coolest idea surrounding skink/kroxigor fluff as well.. I never have liked fielding them IN the unit of skinks

 

[salamander]

yeah that I have to agree about the krox
but also the skinks are wourse in every way or have I overlooked something?

 

[gorenut]

Its because skinks were arguably too good for their points in the last book.

Another solution that I think would work for the Krox is to give them str 5 and have their weapons count as halberds.

 

[Celticfire]

used to think that the S/krox units were terrible, but in my last game against VC a unit of 16skinks 2 krox took out a unit of 10 dread knights. and were one of my better units in that game.

 

[Jive Professor]

I really really like the new book. I played a few games of them in 6th, but never could make the army I wanted. It was generally nothing but skinks, which I like, but not for an ENTIRE army...

The new book is so flexible. You can't really have a "grab-bag" force that has lots of everything, LM are expensive so you need to pick a few areas and focus. Choppy core, sneaky skinks, beasty Stegs. I love the new book.