8th Ed. New back to Lizards 2,400pts

[Gorgerak]

Ok so I'm coming back to Lizardmen for the first time in 3 generations of fantasy and I've got myself a copy of the current army book and dug out my old toys. I drew up a list and have played 3 games - 2 losses and 1 win.

My request of you guys is - how can i improve the following list? I'm not particularly interested in a complete rewrite, rather I would like to be able to just modify the current list to make things more effective. Unless the whole list is just a pile of poo and needs to be binned.

The army is intended to be a straight up, march across the field and punch the enemy right where it hurts most. Simple, just like me.


General - Saurus Oldblood, light armour, shield, Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza, Talisman of Preservation, Carnousaur with Loping stride

Saurus Scar Veteran, light armour, Enchanted shield, Gold Sigil Sword, Egg of Quango

Skink Priest, level 2, Lore of Heavens, Cube of darkness

Skink Priest, level 2, Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll


23x Saurus Warriors, full command

20x Saurus Warriors, full command

13x Skinks, blowpipes

12x Skinks, blowpipes


4x Kroxigor

25x Temple Guard, Full command


3x Salamander Packs

2394pts


What I have learnt from this list in the current edition of fantasy is:

- Salamanders are really good (killed 22 flagellants in 1 round!)

- The carnosaur is a magnet for cannons and hasn't yet made it into combat

- Skinks are very useful as long as you expect them to not survive the battle

- The saurus and temple guard can dish out a ton of hurt and pain and pretty good at taking it too

- I dont really know if the second rank of saurus can use predatory fighter as it seems to conflict and can't see anything that clarifies it one way or the other

- The lore of beast is great as a saurus buff lore, not too sure about heavens anymore.


Any help guys would be very welcome and all constructive criticism welcome.

Thanks in advance

 

[Gary_M]

Having taken a ton of advice when I first joined, hopefully I can pass on some of that:

Oldblood - Looks like you've gone to a theoretical 0 armour save (4+ basic, +1 for light armour, +1 for shield, +1 for steg helm, +1 for carno). Think you can afford to drop, say, the shield and take either a Great Weapon, or Halberd to get extra stregth on the attacks. But 1+/4++ is the way to go.

Carno is a gun magnet. Possibly put Oldblood on Cold one (which gives +2 to armour save so you could drop the LA too to get a few points back in addition to the 220 for the Carno)

Scar Vet - Possibly not very survivable. A lot of players would put Armour of Destiny and Great Weapon (plus mount on cold one). Makes them, survivable and they hit back very hard!

Core - Skinks - I'll assume they are skirmishers, so why blowpipes? Javelins generally considered better for skink skirmishers
Also, thats a lot of core points when min is 600.

Kroxigor - I've read a few posts on here where posters recommend a min of 6.

TG - Possibly take a magic banner - Razor standard to give AP?

Salamanders - I don't have the rule book with me but I don't think you can take three separate sallie packs. They'd have to be a single sallie and a unit of 2. Also, take the extra handlers. Always worth the points in my experience with sallies and razordons.

Consider taking cold ones to act as a bus for the characters if they are mounted on cold ones as well.

Do you have a bastilodon? The bound laser spell is pretty good. While not a first line combat unit, they provide support.

Finally, your list is probably a damn site better than my early ones!

Finally, finally, main thing, is play the way you want to play - I've seen skink cloud armies be competitive, but personally I don't like them. I take some skirmishers, but always have saurus.

 

[Madrck]

Welcome to Lustria!
If you need magical attacks for etherals look at either Fencer's blade(more chance at PF and WS10 is boss) of sword of might/ogre blade depending on your points allowance. Otherwise GW is just better, there's marginal cases (i'm running ogre blade with pot of speed for challenges and i vs alot of elves) but when it comes down to it GW is just better 98% of the time.
Take Blood Roar on your carnosaur. Makes me so sad when people don't run it. I've chased off a 900 point Dragon prince bus with it. Sure it was long odds (reollable LD10), but bad things should and do happen to elves.

Scarvets need either a ward save, +2 fire ward(can still get done by cannons but they ain't shooting this guy over a carnosaur and you'll be in combat from round 2 onwards) or a CoC bus to hide in.

Pick a Lore. Beasts is fine as just a lvl2, but if your going for 4 levels of magic, you might as well get transformation/comet 90% of the time.

And yeah Krox are a min unit of 6. There's a tactica for units of 3 w/champ for shenanigans, but otherwise 6+ baby. Slebodas battle reports are a good read on him starting at 4 and now never fielding less then 7. Just a really good read in general, and some very interesting looks at the army from a none slann perspective.
I used to be all about the beasts, but having played a few games with channel combo/loremaster high I'm a changed man.
Otherwise your list in pretty solid. Keeping to the theme I'd go with

SO Carnosaur w/Loping and Roar, GW LA Steg Helm, Tali of 4++, OTS

Scarvet CO GW Armour of Destiny BSB
Beast Priest lvl2
Beast Priest lvl2(I don't care for scolls but you can cut some saurus if you want them)
Skink Chief Ripperdactyl Spear LA, Charmed shield, Egg of Quango (this is one of the best warmachine hunters and random killers of all things annoying. He beats warmachines on his own, and if he gets charged by something he doesn't like or something got a little unsafe charge and pop egg. Not always amazing, by my god he's fun)

34x Saurus FC
10x Skirmishers (javs are better)
10x Skirmishers
24x Skinks chort w/ 3x Krox (not the best unit in our book, but you can go wide for lots of shots, go deep to hold a round or break a flank. Hard to use right, and if it doesn't work out for you just drop it for your krox unit. This list is way over in core)

25 xTG FC
2x Sallies

If you use special characters dropping the 2 priests for Tetto'eko is a stupid upgrade. loremaster heavens aside the D3 vanguard lets you move your slower saurus and TG up while everything else marches up beside them. Whole army if in combat turn 2. Oh and the Chief has vanguard on the mount, so if you get first turn you can be very aggresive as you won't have to frenzy check on the first round. Otherwise this list should be able to take on everything except high mobile Woodies(not a straight up lose but a hard and boring game) and super hard lists with unkillable BSB's or Ogre death stars.
Hope this helps mate

 

[Gorgerak]

Salamanders - I don't have the rule book with me but I don't think you can take three separate sallie packs. They'd have to be a single sallie and a unit of 2. Also, take the extra handlers. Always worth the points in my experience with sallies and razordons.

You had me worried for a second there - but just to clarify the army book says the unit size is 1+ packs and a pack is 1 salamander and 3 skink handlers.

I'll have a bit of a think about your responses and put a revised list up shortly - but now its halloween, so that means beer time!

 

[Gorgerak]

Ok , I've had a think about the list and I have made some pretty significant alterations to the list after having read through other army lists and battle reports. The aim of the list is largely the same - march across the field and give the enemy a bloody nose. But I have turned to taking more high-profile units than massed infantry ranks.

The reasons for this are two-fold:

1) Currently my carnosaur sticks out like a sore thumb and I want to try and keep him alive by offering some more threatening targets to shoot at.

2) massed ranks of saurus struggle to cope with high toughness and/or 1+ armour save enemies so some higher profile units should help address that.


My list now stands thus:

Saurus Oldblood with light armour, shield, great weapon, Armour of Destiny, Dawnstone. Carnosaur with loping stride and bloodroar

Saurus Scar Veteran with light armour, shiled, great weapon, Battle Standard, Talisman of Protection. Cold One

Skink Priest, Beasts, Level 2, Dispell Scroll


36x Saurus, full command

13x Skink Skirmishers, Javelins and shields

12x Skink Skirmishers, Javelins and Shields


6x Kroxigors

Bastiladon with Solar Engine


Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods, Sharpened horns

3x Salamanders

2396pts

My saurus blocks have been consolidated into 1 large unit, as I have found that the unit of 20 didn't perform very well. The battle Standard Bearer will be in this unit as well as it being in a 6x6 formation. Hoping to be steadfast but even if not re-rolling theleadership tests with cold blooded should add some significant staying power.

The temple guard were very good but as they weren't bunkering a character im opting for a sixth Kroxigor and the ancient stegadon. With the engine of the gods i can bestow a 6++ save onto my carnosaur in case the enemy gets first turn and decides to cannon my general. Not fantastic protection but better than nothing.

However the main point of the stegadon is to draw fire from the carnosaur and provide support to my Kroxigors or saurus warriors given the situation or if the bastiladon is not up to the task/dead.

The decision to change the skinks to javelins and shield is from advice given on here and I look forward to trying it out on monday when my next game is.

What do you guys think of the change to the infantry?
Do you think the addition of the Ancient stegadon and the bigger unit of kroxigors will mean that I will be able to reach combat with some real hitting power. Or maybe dare I say it - allow the carnosaur to see combat???
Do you think the new character configuration will give them the survivability they need, or have i just overspent in this department?

All thoughts welcome as always!

 

[Madrck]

The shield on the OB is fairly pointless. If the carnosaur is dead then it will give you 1+ out of combat. 6 points you can spend somewhere else. Not much but that is atleast an extra snack for your sallies.
With the scar-vet its a similar but much worse problem. 2+4++ is just not 1+4++. Even if he is in a unit of saurus he won't get look out sirs (differnet model type). You should also look into some terradons or a skink chief for war machine hunting. Making them think they will only get one shot before their cannons are under pressure causes people to make alot of mistakes.

OB Carno w/roar stride, Steg helm, ToP (1+4++ while mounted, and even though he's only 2+ on foot, Tough 6 is a harder nut to crack)

Scarvet CO GW AoD BSB (as protected as we can make him without buying some very expensive cav)
lvl2 Beast priest scroll

33xSaurus FC
3 units of 10x Skirmishers (they are disposable points, unless you have a reason for it, there's normally no point to going over min unit size and the third unit gives you more play)

6x Krox w/champ (I like an extra str7 attack. Don't you?)
5x Camos (WM pressure, stops your opponent deploying however they feel like)
Basti w/Solar
2x Sallies

That is the sweet spot at 2400 on the money. If I wasn't having so much fun with my loremaster on high at the moment this is prob what I'd play.

 

[Gorgerak]

Hmm I see what you mean about the 2+, and I must admin the sacred stegadon helm has been a nice ice breaker when my old blood does make it into combat.

Also I think I agree with you thought on the skink priest to take out war machines and maybe small skirmishers, but I have not been able to make terradons work before, and they dont actually look that good currently.

OK, Army list 1.2:

Oldblood, light armour, great wepon, Sacred Stegadon Helm, Talisman of Preservation. Carnosaur, loping stride and bloodroar

Scar Veteran, great weapon, Armour of Destiny, BSB. Cold one

Skink Priest, Beasts, level 2

Skink Chief, spear, light armour, SHield of Ptolos, Potion of toughness. Ripperdactyl


34x Saurus, full command

10x Skinks, javelins and shileds

10x Skinks, javelins and shields


Bastiladon, Solar Engine

6x Kroxigors

Stegadon, sharpened horns


3x Salamanders

2,397

I had to drop the champion from the kroxigors and "un-ancient" the Stegadon, losing the engine of the Gods to get the skink chief in. But I think this is probably a better use of the points and turns the stegadon into a more offensive weapon.

I have been thinking about maybe going for Tekko because of his vanguard ability but I dont really want to drop the lore of beasts to get it - also i would probably have to lose the stegadon as well and im not sure its really worth the points - but hey we'll see.

Thoughts as always are welcome - and I would just like to say thanks for all the advice thus far, realy has helped me understand the book theory a lot better. I now just have to use it in practice