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7th Ed. My new tournament list please read and give input

C
Chameleon Skink

ColdBlood666

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OLD BLOOD W/ CARNOSAUR/ ENCHANTED SHIELD/ VENOM OF THE FIREFLY FROG/
GLYPH NECKLACE/ LIGHT-ARMOUR/ GREAT WEAPON- 432

SKINK PRIEST W/ ENGINE OF THE GODS- 355

SKINK PRIEST W/ ENGINE OF THE GODS- 355


11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77


12 TEMPLE GUARD W/ STANDARD+MUSICIAN- 213
12 TEMPLE GUARD W/ STANDARD+MUSICIAN- 213
12 TEMPLE GUARD W/ STANDARD+MUSICIAN- 213


SALAMANDER W/ 1 EXTRA CREW- 80
SALAMANDER W/ 1 EXTRA CREW- 80
TOTAL- 2249
MODELS- 85
UNITS- 10 (12)
 
Awful list.

If your old blood is mounted on a carno then you may as well take a halberd instead of a great weapon, that way you stil get +1 str but don't strike last.

Each of the priests should be lvl2, that way they are effectively lvl3 and so generate twice as many dispel dice.

Each temple guard unit is a waste of points unless it has a slann in it, so drop all three units and get things that synergise better with a carno such as a unit of cold ones or kroxigors or a stegadon as well as some terradons
 
I figured a great weapon would be better with the old blood as his initiative is basically garbage for a Lord and considering his purpose would be to hunt down enemy characters and monsters its a good possibility he will end up striking last in sucessive rounds anyways. I would rather hit back at strength 7. Not to mention auto killing a chariot is worth its price in gold. Wounding greater daemons on a 3+ is useful too.

I suppose I could drop a salamander to upgrade both skink priests to lvl 2. That was good advice.

I dont agree with you that temple gaurd are worthless without a slaan. I think they are rock solid infantry and besides the models are waaaay better than the saurus or cold one knights. I only collect armies where I know my painting skills will go to good use. I hate goofy looking models. Like the cold ones.

I dont think you had near enough USEFUL or CONSTRUCTIVE advice to support your claim of a "awful" list.
 
Revised tournament list

OLD BLOOD W/ CARNOSAUR/ ENCHANTED SHIELD/ VENOM OF THE FIREFLY FROG/
GLYPH NECKLACE/ LIGHT-ARMOUR/ GREAT WEAPON- 432

SKINK PRIEST W/ LVL 2/ ENGINE OF THE GODS- 390

SKINK PRIEST W/ LVL 2/ENGINE OF THE GODS- 390


11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77


12 TEMPLE GUARD W/ STANDARD- 206
12 TEMPLE GUARD W/ STANDARD- 206
STEGADON- 235



SALAMANDER W/ 1 EXTRA CREW- 80
TOTAL- 2247
MODELS- 73
 
ColdBlood666 said:
I figured a great weapon would be better with the old blood as his initiative is basically garbage for a Lord and considering his purpose would be to hunt down enemy characters and monsters its a good possibility he will end up striking last in sucessive rounds anyways. I would rather hit back at strength 7. Not to mention auto killing a chariot is worth its price in gold. Wounding greater daemons on a 3+ is useful too.
Click to expand...
What Dumbledore said before you posted that, is that since your OldBlood is mounted the great weapon only confers a +1 strength bonus instead of the +2 when not mounted. This gives you a strength of 6, not 7, which does not auto-kill chariots. So instead of taking a great weapon, take a halberd so that you don't have the "always strikes last", but you still keep the +1 strength.
 
to my opinion, Dumbledore is right about the TGs. without a slann inside, they are much to expensive. if you want strong attacks take some kroxs otherwise i would better take normal saurus equipped with spears. by that you double your attacks exept in the turn you charge.

great weapons give only +1str when the char is mounted. thats why dumbledore advised to take hellbeard because with mounted chars its equal use for less points.

besides i would drop one or two units of skirmish skinks and get one or two units of ranked skinks for redirecting.
 
Oh wow I must have been missing something big all this time. I really didnt know that mounted models didnt get +2 strength for great weapons. Halberd it is then.

Thanks!
 
I guess my main thing is that I want some rank and file units and dont really like the saurus models. If I was to replace the two temple guard units with kroxigor units you think that would be more effective? Im new to lizardmen im a long time daemon and undead player. So I want to get this right before I go buy more models. Maybe I could drop a unit of temple guard and get a unit of kroxigors as ive already bought one box of TG.
 
The points you make regarding the benefits of S7 are both very true and valid. They sadly are wholly irrelevant as having a GW when mounted provides only +1S (the same as a halberd, except with the bonus disadvantage of always striking last).

Temple guard are lovely models. Really great. However the point of posting lists in the army list forum is to discuss army lists mostly in terms of gameplay mechanics. The mechanics dictate that TG are simply not worth it on a gameplay level unless they have a slann sitting in the middle of them. Their strength comes from the synergy of cold bloodedness, stubbornness and the general high toughness and relatively high armour of saurus.

Now to give you the undeniable facts and figures that make TG not worth it without a slann. This is coming from someone who wanted desperately to have them in his 1k list due to their beauty, who even started a thread that eventually swayed my mind (after about 3 pages of discussion) regarding whether TG are worthwhile without a slann.

TG cost 16 points. To exploit their "rock solidness" it is best to use their hw+sh 99% of the time. Plain saurus with a hw+sh cost 11 points. The sole advantage of TG without a slann over plain saurus is one point of armour... costing you 5points per model. TG's strength comes through the synergy of being tough and stubborn. TG with a slann will stay in the fight 98.9% of the time in any situation that they lose as long as some survive with a BSB re-roll (slann as BSB can be trivially assumed). Without a slann or a BSB (as I note you have no BSB) they will stay 80.6% of the time at best. This rapidly falls to 68.1%... 52.3%... 35.6%... and lower as you lose by more CR. Not to mention that without a slann the TG are no longer ITP (I guess at least this means that they can flee hahaha).

In short I think that it's fair to say that TG without a slann in it are the least efficient and effective unit possible in the army except possibly a swarm or a skink deathstar (unless charged by a large target haha). And let's not forget that asking for advice on here is asking for a judgement of effectiveness and efficiency.

It's my opinion that TG without a slann are an awful choice (and it's something I've thought long and hard about - my first painted unit was my 10TG) and as a result any list based around 3 small units of TG is a list that I am simply going to judge as awful beyond words, especially if it has flaws in basic weapon choice and EotG set-up!

Essay over; I forgive you for your impudence: saying that the TG should go is by definition constructive criticism; it is clear you just didn't comprehend just how bad slann-less TG are.
 
Kroxigors are great - best in units of 3 or 4 I think, as are stegadons (though too many and you'll take a comp hit). Terradons are fantastic in units of 3 or 4. I understand if you don't like the CO models, though personally I love them. Kroxigors are some of the best models available, especially the one with the large round spiked ball on his GW (there's a pic of mine somewhere in the modeling forum!)
Keep a unit of TG if you want but make it larger - like 18 for instance. It's just that having three units of them really doesn't synergise with your carnosaur and skinks - they are all fast and too many footsoldiers and half of your army will be trailing behind the rest. Also consider converting some saurus spearmen with TG heads and bodies as they really are a fantastic unit (best at 18 - much better than hw&sh I think).
 
Thanks Dumbledore I guess I got offended because I felt like I was getting bashed before I even knew what was going on. I honestly didnt know about the no bonus great weapon mounted thing (I play about 1-2 games a month max). I see what you mean about the temple gaurd. They are just as pricey as chaos warriors but I think warriors are better at what they do for the army they do it for. I also should have the majority of my army able to keep up to the stegs, skinks, and big papa pump on the carnosaur.

Also, I guess it wouldnt be a big deal if I used the temple guard as spearmen. Thier halberds look weird enough to pass as spears I suppose. It would also help out my comp as im going to get railed most likely for two EOTG's and a carnosaur.

Ill make a new list right now and post it. Feel free to give me your brutal advice. I like people to give it to me straight. Especially you. We could be friends you and I. We could go rollerskating and eat corn dogs in the park. LOL well maybe not.....
 
OLD BLOOD W/ CARNOSAUR/ ENCHANTED SHIELD/ VENOM OF THE FIREFLY FROG/
GLYPH NECKLACE/ LIGHT-ARMOUR/ HALBERD- 428

SKINK PRIEST W/ LVL 2/ ENGINE OF THE GODS- 390

SKINK PRIEST W/ LVL 2/ ENGINE OF THE GODS- 390

SKINK PRIEST W/ ROD OF THE STORM- 90


11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
11 SKINK SKIRMISHERS-77
20 SAURUS SPEARMEN W/ STANDARD+MUSICIAN- 264


4 KROXIGORS- 220



SALAMANDER W/ 1 EXTRA CREW- 80
SALAMANDER W/ 1 EXTRA CREW- 80
TOTAL- 2250
MODELS- 74
 
6x3 will give you more attacks and a better combat res (usually) for less points and if you drop the music.
you can give your priest on foot the cloak of feathers which is a great advantage for casting well anything
if so inclined make him a FsoD

i am going to recomend getting a 6 man unit of chamelons instead of one of your 11 man units of skirmishers

the other option is to change your entire army and go with a fast moving force all the way with skinks and cold-ones and krox mabye some terries

to do it you would have to drop the saurus entirely and some of the skinks

as it stands though if you simply march your saurus up the middle they will mostly be a place for skinks and sallies to regroup around (once again hopefully)
 
About the Halberd. In the main rule book it says that they require two hands, as such using it will lose you the +2 AR from the enchanted shield, the +1 strength is nice but there is another place you can get it and that place is from the simple spear. Spears on mounted characters give them a bonus of +1 strength but only on the turn they charge.
My advice is to drop the halberd and get a spear, after all you are most likely going to be the one who is charging with movement 7 one the Carnosaur. With the spear you will retain the +2 to your armour which can drastically increase you chances of surviving a stray bolt or cannonball and improves the Oldbloods character killing ability.
 
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