8th Ed. Lore selections

[Taipan]

So, been re-doing and re-doing my Double Slann list for a while now. I'm still really torn on what to give my support Slann. Here they are;

Hypno-Toad w/Lore of Shadow, Rumination, Mystery, Cupped Hands, dispel scroll
(395 points)

After going through all the Lores a lot, Shadow just keeps coming out on top. The killy spells are amazing, given our lack of ranged attacks ('Pit' for nuking, 'Pendulum' for sniping enemy warmachines), the hexes are endlessly useful ('Miasma', 'Enfeeble' and 'Withering'), and the ultimate turns your bodyguard into gods ('Mindrazor' means S8 Temple Guard). 'Steed' is also good for lulz, if I need to teleport a Scar-Vet into an enemy cannon (after 'Mindrazoring' him).

Hypno-Toad w/Lore of Life or Light, Rumination, Mystery, General and BSB
(350 points)

So yeah, other armies might have to get by putting their most important asset on a weak Hero choice, but we get to put it on a highly-defended Wizard . Obviously, the support Slann is going to be less aggressive, so his spells need to be more buffing and less raw death. Life is obviously the only way to get T8 Saurus and TG happening (coupled with their good armour this makes arrows and S3 infantry useless), but it's only ranged offense is a powerful but short-ranged nuke. 'Dwellers' is awesome, but fixing Lizardmen's typical weakness of speed is IMO more important (and you already have 'Pit of Shades' for nuking).

Lore of Light actually has decent gun-magic, all things being equal (Fire is one-dimensional, Metal kills Knights well but so does nuking and Mindrazoring, and Metals Transformation is unreliable on anything but hordes, which Saurus already slaughter just fine even unbuffed). 'Speed of Light', 'Pha's Protection' and 'Birona's Timewarp' are where the real awesome is though. I actually missed on my first reading that 'Pha' affects both shooting and close-combat, and Birona grants +1A (to attached characters as well). The best part about Light buffs, unlike Life, is that they can be AOE and thus benefit the entire army (whereas Life is solely for buffing the attached or nearby TG blocks, not everyone at once). That many attacks, going first with re-rolls to hit, will utterly annhilate most infantry and even Knights and multi-wound monsters are going to fail saves. Not to mention, 'Light' is the only hope I have to defend against a 'Purple Sun' or 'Pit' hitting my guys (their default I1/2 is laughable).

I'm really torn though. Life is the only way to bring back my expensive infantry (won't bother casting on Skinks obviously), and 'Dwellers' doesn't scatter and utterly annhilates anything bar monsters (which is easily fixed by a quick 'Enfeeble' spell on target). On the other hand, 'Light' makes ranged attacks and close-combat less effective for the enemy, and turns my Temple Guard and Saurus into ninjas. Light also has the caveat of gun-magic when I need it (ie setting a Regenerating unit on fire with 'Burning Gaze').

Your thoughts? I'm not really considering the other Lores (Heavens is available on my Level 1 EOTG anyway, and I'll probably take 'Iceshard' most of the time to stack with 'Miasma').

 

[Coatl]

got yourself a tough pickle. im running my double slanns as life and light. life for the bsb in a 52 block of saurus and light for the general in a 20 skink skirmisher unit . if your sticking with shadow, id go light. I10 WS10 saurus is hysterical and light so so very cheap to cast overall. had my big block of saurus go through a horde of ironfists (?) with great weapons and a tyrant. i believe the CR was somewhere in the +18 range when all was said and done. light is your friend. life is great (especially if your running them like i do) but shadow complements light very well

 

[Taipan]

Just realised, can't have 'Cupped Hands' and dispel scroll, they're both Arcane Items. I guess I'll just pawn it off to the EOTG Priest

life for the bsb in a 52 block of saurus and light for the general in a 20 skink skirmisher unit

I've been wondering about that...I mean, Temple Guard provide the rare ability to properly bunker our mages (because they go in the second rank always, and due to step up if your Slann is fighting you're already dead). On the other hand, we can stick them in front and in cheaper Core blocks.
I'm just not convinced Saurus and Skink hordes will actually achieve much. With S5 and WS4, Temple Guard actually kill stuff reliably (reduce armour on tough units and negate it entirely on light-medium infantry). Plus they're nearly impossible to rout with a Slann attached.

if your sticking with shadow, id go light. I10 WS10 saurus is hysterical and light so so very cheap to cast overall. had my big block of saurus go through a horde of ironfists (?) with great weapons and a tyrant. i believe the CR was somewhere in the +18 range when all was said and done. light is your friend. life is great (especially if your running them like i do) but shadow complements light very well

Yeah, I mean Life has some amazing buffs, and the miscast protection and 'Dwellers' work very well, but it doesn't actually make our army hit harder when push comes to shove. Plus, the regen models ability is once per turn and is probably going to be the first thing dispelled.

 

[cyanhawk]

It all comes down to play style. If you plan on sitting back and letting the opponent come to you then you want life. In this scenario you will most likely be charged and you want the toughness bonus and the regen etc etc.

If you want to go after them you want light or shadow. The buffs from light make your saurus warriors killing machines. The debuffs from shadow make the enemy very squishy. I personally have been running alot of shadow. Those chaos warriors with halbreds aren't as scary when they are -d3 str and toughness.

Light and shadow combined will pretty much guarantee you destroying a unit in combat as long as you get a decent magic phase and can get your spells off.

 

[Taipan]

It all comes down to play style. If you plan on sitting back and letting the opponent come to you then you want life. In this scenario you will most likely be charged and you want the toughness bonus and the regen etc etc

No, definitely not. Every turn I spend sitting still, I'm getting shot. The sooner I eat his warmachines and ranged units (or 'hide' in close-combat) the better. Heh, just realised, Birona doubles Movement, so Turn 2 charges are entirely possible.

If you want to go after them you want light or shadow. The buffs from light make your saurus warriors killing machines. The debuffs from shadow make the enemy very squishy. I personally have been running alot of shadow. Those chaos warriors with halbreds aren't as scary when they are -d3 str and toughness.

Light and shadow combined will pretty much guarantee you destroying a unit in combat as long as you get a decent magic phase and can get your spells off.

Yeah, I think I will end up taking Light/Shadow in the end. Life gets such rave reviews on the internet though, just thought I'd sound out some other opinions.

 

[cyanhawk]

Life makes that temple guard bunker nearly indestructible. With throne up, they are toughness 8, with a 4+ armor save a 4+ regen save and just for kicks they cause some automatic hits thanks to shield of thorns. After that the slann just brings back whatever was killed to life and heals himself or the 2 tooled up scar vets in the unit if they take any wounds. If he feels like it and has dice left he throws out a str 6 magic missile and then dwellers whatever is left alive. Very nasty.

If you put the ldr banner on the slann they are stubborn on a 10 using cold blooded and get a reroll. So they never flee. Its like a 99.6% success rate to stay.

Of course pit of shades, purple sun, gateway, and brass orbs make me crap my pants. One of those hitting the unit and you just lost 1500 points or so. Initiative tests are not our friends.

 

[n810]

Hmmm...

Wondering how much destruction dual Fire Slanns could unleash.
(Don't forget about the Easier to cast bonus for targeting the same unit)

 

[cyanhawk]

Dual fire slanns end up wasting one spell selection. But with both having the extra power dice per spell I could see a whole world of hurt going down.

 

[KillerK]

I'm actually thinking of the same thing, But Shadow and Life (enfeeblement and dwellers, withering and sallies, is just evil. plus dwellers and pit auto kills war machines).

Other very powerful combos also possible.

 

[caldt]

You mentioned using shadow's pendulum spell to snipe warmachines. How does this work? It does a s10 hit with d3 wounds but surely that just kills one crew member, so it would still take 3 turns to take one out.

Or am I missing something and it counts as one model with 3 wounds? If so, my friends gunline is in trouble.