8th Ed. Lore of Death

[Rettile]

hey guys,
reading some posts lore of death seems to be a popular choice, and this is quite obvious: the lore attribute can give us the amount of power dices we used to have with the old book, 3 spells to snipe nasty characters we cannot deal with, then we have -1 S and T, fear/terror and obviously purple sun... Well, purple sun is the one which makes me hesitate to choose lore of death. It's very good, that's right, but not so useful on high I enemies (which are quite common) and you could kill your own slann and TG if you take them (and i'm sure that even if you use a vassal you still hit your slann on a misfire). So, is the risk worth in your opinion?

 

[Screamer]

Don't think you can send the purple sun from a skink vassal, since it's not a magic missile or direct damage.

 

[n810]

Personaly I would only use purple sun as a last resort.

 

[conquahex]

Yeah, seems like you've hit on a lot of Death's strong points and the dangers of purple sun. There are enough useful spells in that lore that i have on several occasions traded purple sun for the signature.

 

[Arbite]

Back when we could get loremaster, I played death alot. I would concentrate on the sniper spells. But if it got desperate, I would purple sun. The poor temple guard would usually die, but i would limit it to one by having the slann on the extreme right of left flank. ( THis also cuts down on miscast damage by removing 4 possible victims.)

Favorite example, I had run into the world famous horde of Ghouls with a front rank composed of Wraith heros. With no way to do damage since there were no magic weapons. I purple sunned down 4 of the wraiths to open the unit to combat. I also took out a large prtion of the horde. Best part was the double 1's i rolled for the 2 temple guard Intiative checks.

Death with Tetecko will give you two magic phases per turn with just a little dice luck.

 

[GCPD]

hey guys,
reading some posts lore of death seems to be a popular choice, and this is quite obvious: the lore attribute can give us the amount of power dices we used to have with the old book, 3 spells to snipe nasty characters we cannot deal with, then we have -1 S and T, fear/terror and obviously purple sun... Well, purple sun is the one which makes me hesitate to choose lore of death. It's very good, that's right, but not so useful on high I enemies (which are quite common) and you could kill your own slann and TG if you take them (and i'm sure that even if you use a vassal you still hit your slann on a misfire). So, is the risk worth in your opinion?

Move Slann out of unit (or into Skink Skirmishers!). 6-dice Purple Sun. Win.

Even against high-I enemies (Elves and Warriors), it will do enough damage for you to get a bunch of power dice back.

 

[Ixt]

I have had great luck with Lore of Death! Against most opponents, I'll drop a spell solely to pick up Spirit Leech. I save it for the very end of the phase, when they are typically out of dispel die, or they're extremely low.

The threat of a LD10 Slann rolling off against anything 8 or less has made my opponents act... uncharacteristically? Puns! Whizz! Kacha!!

Think:
You have a number of low level spells, as Loremaster, that you could cast at the end of your phase. Even if their effect is moot, just casting them makes them eligible to be dropped for something you favor. However, you have just one or two PD left.

So, cast Spirit Leech and pick something with moderate to low LD! At LD10, you'll probably kill whatever it is or at least gravely wound it. Then, more power die, potentially! Your opponent knows this!

Maybe they part with a dispel scroll? Maybe they let their character croak? Death is fantastic for its utility like that.

 

[hdctambien]

The threat of a LD10 Slann rolling off against anything 8 or less has made my opponents act... uncharacteristically?

I don't think a Slann can get Ld10 with Spirit Leach, since it's unmodified you don't get the Standard of Discipline's +1.

Ld 9 is no slouch though!

 

[Ixt]

The threat of a LD10 Slann rolling off against anything 8 or less has made my opponents act... uncharacteristically?

I don't think a Slann can get Ld10 with Spirit Leach, since it's unmodified you don't get the Standard of Discipline's +1.

Ld 9 is no slouch though!

+1! Thank you; my mistake

 

[Markhaus]

If you do a search online for spirit leech blizzard, you will get references to the fact unmodified leadership actually means the modified leadership. I don't really understand it, but there was a FAQ for it saying the spells that reduce LD affect spirit leech, spells that buff it might as well.

It is very confusing, I know the group I game with follows the FAQ, so the unmodified is modified, but others ignore the FAQ because unmodified should be unmodified.

 

[hdctambien]

The FAQ allows for you to use the highest Ld in your unit and it allows for you to use Inspiring Presence. But it does not allow for other modifications (like Standard of Discipline or the spell Doom and Darkness).

Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any
characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from
Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can
be used unless specifically stated otherwise.


Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes

 

[Markhaus]

There is apparently a play tester named Ben Curry (?) that runs a podcast. In it he outlines why doom and darkness drops LD for spirit leech. Which also means that iceshard does too.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think unmodified should be anything but the base leadership on the model, but the RAW allow for it to be modified (and the game store I play at follows RAW).

 

[hdctambien]

Interesting, Ben's argument (http://baddice.co.uk/daily129/) hinges on another FAQ:

Q: Does a magic item or spell that gives a bonus to a characteristic, do
so bonus for all rules purposes (e.g. the effect of spells, characteristic
tests, etc)? (p4)
A: Yes, except for magic weapons or where the description of
the item or spell specifically says otherwise.

And his findings are:

"My thoughts on the matter are that the intention is for there to be no modifiers other than a character adding leadership, there is however a failing when it comes to the wording .... Doom and Darkness combined with Spirit Leech is a real threat!"

So, I guess I can get behind this, that a "spell that gives a bonus to a characteristic does so for all rules purposes", so Standard of Discipline can get you to a Ld10, but Doom and Darkness does not give a "bonus" it gives a "-3 Penalty" and Iceshard Blizzard does not give a "bonus" it gives a "-1 modifier" so by the same strict RAW I'd say that "penalties" and "modifiers" do not count towards an unmodified Leadership, only "bonuses" would.

Either way, if you're playing in a US GT, most of them are using the US Masters FAQ (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IRlWKPblnQlsOwhyXnzOwgq8zL5s4R-dhvinWJPi_gY/edit) now-a-days which stipulates:

4.30 How do we resolve the Spirit Leech/Unmodified Leadership/Inspiring Presence dilemma?
The caster and the target will use the highest Leadership value available to them within the unit, but may use Inspiring Presence if in range. Neither the caster, the target, nor the models with Inspiring Presence will have their Leadership changed by items/spells/abilities which modify Leadership (such as Doom and Darkness, The Standard of Discipline, Aura of Dark Majesty, etc.).

But I know lots of you aren't in the US or even Tournament players, so that's more of a US House Rule.