8th Ed. LM 4000 in fun-loving meta

[Alch]

Good day colleagues! Its my first post here after all the reading that I've done both before and after the registration.

First of all - thank you for great feedback and positive attitude. Tactics sections were awesome, and so were your advices throughout the posts.

While it may sound strange, I find it is a good time to start new WH armies, so many people make impulse sales... tasty deals all around!

OK, now to my army list. We are playing in a very friendly meta with almost no WAAC, we are a bunch of nice, bearded, married and (comparatively) fat men who just loves an occasional game of FB =) Most of my enemies are either infantry-heavy WoCs, VCs and OnG armies. There are a couple of High Elves, but they do not abuse the Dragon Banner, so its OK. There is a single Empire player with 2 cannons and a Stemtank, and he's likely to be the worst of my possible enemies.

I tried to assemble an army "on the cheap", so there are three battleforces "in the base" of it. I also tried to use the "two of everything" approach that seems to be supported here on LO.

So it goes: WFB 8th, 4.000 points.

Lords:
1) Slann Mage-Priest. BSB, Banner of Discipline. High Magic. Disciplines of the Old Ones: Focus of Mystery, Soul of Stone, ROEE, Becalming Cogitations. Magic items: Ironcurse Icon, Obsidian Loadstone (I know it does not work against miscasts), Shrieking Blade, Channeling staff.

2) Saurus Old-Blood. Cold one. Great weapon. Magic items: Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, Potion of Foolhardiness.

3) Saurus Old-Blood. Cold one. Great weapon. Magic items: SSH of Itza, Talisman of Preservation.

Both oldbloods go in COR units and both have the sweet 1+/4++ to chop heavy things/keep them occupied.

Heroes:
1) Skink priest. Lvl 2. Lore of the Beasts. Magic items: Cube of Darkness, Dragonbane gem (I had to put these 5 odd points somewhere...).
2) Skink priest. Lvl 2. Lore of the Beasts. Magic items: Dispell Scroll, RR of Ruin.

These little guys are just dispell caddies and run around in Skirmisher units throwing Wyssans on things.

Core:
1) Saurus warriors, 30, FCG, HW/Spears (magnets).
2) Saurus warriors, 30, FCG, HW/Spears (magnets).
3) Skink Skirmishers, 10, Blowpipes, Champion.
4) Skink Skirmishers, 10, Blowpipes, Champion.
5) Skink Skirmishers, 10, Javelin, Champion.
5) Skink Skirmishers, 10, Javelin, Champion.

I love Saurus warriors. I know Skinks are considered to be better, but with some casting SWs should be the anvils that hold the line while the cold ones do the flank munching.

Special:
1) Bastiladon with Solar Engine.
2) Bastiladon with Solar Engine.
3) Cold One Riders x9, FCG, Spears.
4) Cold One Riders x9, FCG, Spears.
5) Temple Guard, 30, FCG, Razor Standard.

Bastiladons seem to be a nice support piece, and I especially love their dispell-dice draing shenanigans. I use bound spell a lot, every game some of my guys had a ring of some sort, and it always worked wonders... TG are the obligatory bunker + they cause fear (due to Slann's sword) + chop things up with S5 AP.

Rare:
1) salamander hunting pack. 1 sally, Extra handler.
2) salamander hunting pack. 1 sally, Extra handler.

As of now I see that this list can be severely weak against artillery-heavy armies due to lack of flyers and vs; massed heavy cavalry due to general ST of 4-5 all around. However, I hope to dominate the magic phase with the Slann, Skink priests (Wyssans on everything suitable) and multiple bound magic missiles (to drain dispell pools). "Two of everything" should allow me to loose a unit and keep on going. There is not a single Unit apart from the Slann bunker that is not "mirrored" on the other flank.

Deployment will be symmetrical with the toad in the centre.

So, fire away, any critics is welcome =)

Best regards,
Pavel

 

[skink chief]

I like big blocks, I like lots of magic, so the general feel of the list I like .
I don't know what models are in your posession since you just bought the army?

I'm not a big fan of the 2 units of 30 saurus. I know you want 2 of everything, but one big block of saurus (50) will in most cases do more for you then 2 blocks of 30, certainly in a 4000pts list. They will likely just be a more expensive block then skink or skrox for your enemy to eat ( granted they might stick a turn or 2).

The 2nd thing I dislike is the other mirror of the 9 COR. You say you miss big hitters. Well the points here could be spent on something that does hit hard ( maybe kroxigors, since you are in fun-loving meta). I think 2x5 COR with the OB and SCV will do just fine if you really want the mirror image.

Not doing to much damage to the list, I think I would take the COR 2 x 5 and invest the points gained from dropping 8 COR into more SW, you can have 2 blocks of 40 with +/- 40pts left open.

Then one last thing: the skink champions wont do anything in the skirmisher units. That is another 40pts that opens up. This combined can give you even more SW or get some chameleon skins (the better option imo).

That's all I can really say because I like the list for fun loving meta, this is def. a list I see myself playing and having fun with.

 

[Alch]

Thank you very much! Are Cold One Riders really so bad that the only use for them is ablative wounds for Cowboy delivery? I know that 8th killed off cavalry domination, but my other army (HE) are very horse-heavy, one of the lists is actually a 4000-point 80-"horse" list, and they do pretty well if I manage to make necessary charges. A CoR unit seems to have a great damage output, especially with the combination of charge + PF + spear...

 

[airjamy]

Thank you very much! Are Cold One Riders really so bad that the only use for them is ablative wounds for Cowboy delivery? I know that 8th killed off cavalry domination, but my other army (HE) are very horse-heavy, one of the lists is actually a 4000-point 80-"horse" list, and they do pretty well if I manage to make necessary charges. A CoR unit seems to have a great damage output, especially with the combination of charge + PF + spear...

Sad to say this, but yes, in a competitive mindset one only takes COC as a delivery system. The 2 attacks they have do not make up for them not being core(like Silver Helms) and it does not make them as strong as other heavy cavalry counterparts for their points (like Demigryphs). If you want to kill or flank stuff, which is what they seemingly want to do, there are better options in other books to do just that. It is true that we do not have acces to those units, so in a non competitive army they do have their place, but when you start looking across armies there are a lot stronger units to fulfill this job. So, you only take them if you have to, that is to guard a Scarvet, and else you don't, if you play to win.

 

[Scalenex]

Are Cold One Riders really so bad that the only use for them is ablative wounds for Cowboy delivery?

Yes, yes they are that bad. For what we get relative to other army's heavy cavalry our COR is expensive, both in points cost and the fact that we cannot take heavy cavalry as Core. Most other armies' heavy cavalry options can take magic banners, we cannot.

They have a 2+ save whereas many heavy cavalry of the enemy is at 1+. Granted we have more attacks than most equivalents but the no lances thing hurts . They just don't cut through stuff by themselves. They are tough enough to grind up infantry, but most enemy infantry has Steadfast.

That said, they aren't mahrlect awful like Swarms. If you are playing a casual game, they should be okay. You got souped Oldbloods so you should be fine.

Skink Skirmishers do not have any real use for unit champions unless they are babysitting Skink Priests and even then it's not required. If you REALLY want your Slann to be packing a magic weapon, I'd advise one of the 5 point magic weapons. If you really need magic attacks in that unit, I'd think you'd be better off tossing one to your Temple Guard unit champion. That gives you three attacks with the magic weapon and lets your unit champion use his shield getting a 3+ close combat armor save. If you drop one of the Skink unit champions, the Shrieking Blade, and the Firebane Gem you can give him a Sword of Swiftness. Good against Elves and undead alike.

 

[Alch]

Yes, yes they are that bad. For what we get relative to other army's heavy cavalry our COR is expensive, both in points cost and the fact that we cannot take heavy cavalry as Core. Most other armies' heavy cavalry options can take magic banners, we cannot.

They have a 2+ save whereas many heavy cavalry of the enemy is at 1+. Granted we have more attacks than most equivalents but the no lances thing hurts . They just don't cut through stuff by themselves. They are tough enough to grind up infantry, but most enemy infantry has Steadfast.

That said, they aren't mahrlect awful like Swarms. If you are playing a casual game, they should be okay. You got souped Oldbloods so you should be fine.

Skink Skirmishers do not have any real use for unit champions unless they are babysitting Skink Priests and even then it's not required. If you REALLY want your Slann to be packing a magic weapon, I'd advise one of the 5 point magic weapons. If you really need magic attacks in that unit, I'd think you'd be better off tossing one to your Temple Guard unit champion. That gives you three attacks with the magic weapon and lets your unit champion use his shield getting a 3+ close combat armor save. If you drop one of the Skink unit champions, the Shrieking Blade, and the Firebane Gem you can give him a Sword of Swiftness. Good against Elves and undead alike.

Shrieking blade is there just to give FEAR to the TG block (i believe the wording of the TG rules allows to extend FEAR to the TG block if the Slann has it). It is not even supposed to do anything, just give them the occasional FEAR bonus, nothing else.

 

[Alch]

Sad to say this, but yes, in a competitive mindset one only takes COC as a delivery system. The 2 attacks they have do not make up for them not being core(like Silver Helms) and it does not make them as strong as other heavy cavalry counterparts for their points (like Demigryphs). If you want to kill or flank stuff, which is what they seemingly want to do, there are better options in other books to do just that. It is true that we do not have acces to those units, so in a non competitive army they do have their place, but when you start looking across armies there are a lot stronger units to fulfill this job. So, you only take them if you have to, that is to guard a Scarvet, and else you don't, if you play to win.

That makes me a sad panda... Well, seems that "-10 CoR" option gives me plenty of extra points to play around with... Thank you!

 

[airjamy]

That makes me a sad panda... Well, seems that "-10 CoR" option gives me plenty of extra points to play around with... Thank you!

Well, do not let it get you down, they are absolutely good enough in the fun loving meta you describe . Most people that are active on the army list section of this forum seek to improve lists in a competitive sense, so most people really do not like COC as they are not that strong. Does not mean you should not use them, just do not expect great results from them in a competitive sense.

 

[Alch]

Well, do not let it get you down, they are absolutely good enough in the fun loving meta you describe . Most people that are active on the army list section of this forum seek to improve lists in a competitive sense, so most people really do not like COC as they are not that strong. Does not mean you should not use them, just do not expect great results from them in a competitive sense.

I guess another major problem with heavy cav in 8th, apart from the steadfast and step-up stuff is that mounts that are heavy hitters are of no use from back ranks, as well as all extra rider attacks are lost... I guess the same problem as with the CoRs applies to MC like Mournfangs/Demigryphs as well. There are basically no insentives to take more than a single rank apart form ablative wounds, and even then these wounds are better running around in their own "efficient" single-rank sunit eating faces =) On the other hand, my HE fair quite well, getting their lance hits from 3 ranks, with the lances being their only reliable sourse of damage...

 

[airjamy]

I guess another major problem with heavy cav in 8th, apart from the steadfast and step-up stuff is that mounts that are heavy hitters are of no use from back ranks, as well as all extra rider attacks are lost... I guess the same problem as with the CoRs applies to MC like Mournfangs/Demigryphs as well. There are basically no insentives to take more than a single rank apart form ablative wounds, and even then these wounds are better running around in their own "efficient" single-rank sunit eating faces =) On the other hand, my HE fair quite well, getting their lance hits from 3 ranks, with the lances being their only reliable sourse of damage...

Would completely agree with you on that one, there is really no incentive to go for big units of heavy cav, they are also often very vulnerable to spells (dwellers anyone?). That said, i think that playing warhammer with only massive units of heavy cav swamping everything is not the most interesting idea, so in a way it is nice that it is not that strong to play? I mean, on a casual or semi-competetive level it might give you less options but in the competetive scene it makes games a lot more interesting. I do not want to go back to the age of the Chaos knights of Khorne .