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7th Ed. lizards and the empire
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OldBlood
strewart
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Empire hey... I guess the biggest worry from Empire is their warmachines. A cannon can cause serious hurt to a stegadon or an expensive unit of saurus/Temple Guard equally.
They are best dealt with by charmeleon skinks or terradons, get them early and if neccesary hide the steg for a turn or two so it doesn't die. Better to have a live one for half the game at the end than a dead one in turn 2.
Really I haven't had too much trouble dealing with empire, they are not an overly powerful army unless you are facing a stank or two but most people are good enough to avoid them. Detachments are dealt with by charging or blocking the detachment so it cannot get to your flanks.
They are best dealt with by charmeleon skinks or terradons, get them early and if neccesary hide the steg for a turn or two so it doesn't die. Better to have a live one for half the game at the end than a dead one in turn 2.
Really I haven't had too much trouble dealing with empire, they are not an overly powerful army unless you are facing a stank or two but most people are good enough to avoid them. Detachments are dealt with by charging or blocking the detachment so it cannot get to your flanks.
Saurus
Serpentsire
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i went up against that rediculous Pope wagon in my last tourney and was not prepared for his arch lector to turn my Oldblood into a pansy two attack strength 3 human.
Carnasaur
Caneghem
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If your opponent is fond of taking the popemobile, you will probably want to go with lore of metal. You can pick him off with Burning Iron or lock his chariot up with commandment of brass. You'll also have that great spell Spirit of the Forge to nuke whole knight units, and commandment of brass can help shut down his cannons. You may even want to use law of gold if he runs the uber combat-res banner that doubles his rank bonus.
Terradon
Eternity_Warden
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I have not heard of this pope mobile... 
What is it?
What is it?
I have not heard of this pope mobile...
What is it?
It's a model of the Pope in Rome riding around his own heavy armed Ferrari
Question: How do you put in the name of the guys that you quote?? In the "quote-thing" that I'm making in my post?
Ripperdactyl
Dreadgrass
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Its an Empire Arch Lector on a War altar, which is essentially a chariot that adds to his magical abilities, I think it has a bound spell or somesuch too....
I had the unfortunate experience that my second game with lizardmen was against a popmobile.
he can cast two lvl 3 bounds per turn, in addition he casts one lvl 5 bound from any spell from the lore of light (aka he casts cleansing flare) he has magic resistance, a 4+ ward and 4+ normal save (i believe)
The guy on top has hatred and usually VHS, he has two attacks at ws4 s4 and pretty much sucks. He is also going to have a 1+ armor save (has a 4+ ward from alter) and has enough room for a magic weapon.
Finally he is unbreakable so you cant get him to run from a ranked up unit.
I was able to slow him with a unit of saurus, but my carnasaur was stuck in combat so i could not really help. Then the popemobile ate another unit later in the game. Game ended in a draw fortunately (i even had about 100-150 VPs on him
)
he can cast two lvl 3 bounds per turn, in addition he casts one lvl 5 bound from any spell from the lore of light (aka he casts cleansing flare) he has magic resistance, a 4+ ward and 4+ normal save (i believe)
The guy on top has hatred and usually VHS, he has two attacks at ws4 s4 and pretty much sucks. He is also going to have a 1+ armor save (has a 4+ ward from alter) and has enough room for a magic weapon.
Finally he is unbreakable so you cant get him to run from a ranked up unit.
I was able to slow him with a unit of saurus, but my carnasaur was stuck in combat so i could not really help. Then the popemobile ate another unit later in the game. Game ended in a draw fortunately (i even had about 100-150 VPs on him
)
Razordon
novatomato
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If the Popemobile is a chariot, then the solution is to JSoD it. Or try to get commandment of brass through, although it probably has MR or the Arch Lector has MR so it will be hard to get the spell through.
novatomato said:
unfortunately you cant do that because he will have VHS which means that he will challenge you and then you switch stats so you become only s4 base and he will wipe the floor with you, with your stats, giving him a much better save (1+/4++) and maybe he will be at one less strength than you, +1 T +1 attack, and +1ws.
It has MR 2...
he might take hammer of judgement so that about 1/3 of his hits autowound and no armor save (toughness test, probably at t4 because VHS). Oh and he has hatred to get re-rolls to hit...
all that for 305 points...
Razordon
novatomato
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But can you not just refuse the challenge? then you target all your attacks at the chariot.
And about Van Horstmans speculum, i think thats the VHS you mean, does he take your modified stats via magic items and spells, or just your base stats?
And about Van Horstmans speculum, i think thats the VHS you mean, does he take your modified stats via magic items and spells, or just your base stats?
OldBlood
strewart
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novatomato said:
You can't refuse a challenge if you have no ranks to hide behind... And of course if you do have ranks, the model doesn't fight anyway.
I think VHS can count stat boosting stuff, but I'm not sure weapons would count for those purposes.
^^ Yeah thats why it is so mean
But it only uses your base stats, any equipment (mundane or magical) or other special rules (scaly skin/regenerate etc) do not transfer over.
On a separate note a carnosaur is pretty good at taking it down. You have to watch out for the oldblood because he can be hurt in the challenge but direct all of your s7 attacks against the chariot and then the archlector is no longer unbreakable and probably just lost combat to an outnumbering fear causing enemy, chomp chomp. He can only switch with the character not the monster underneath.
Oh and yes VHS is Van Horstmens Speculum.
But it only uses your base stats, any equipment (mundane or magical) or other special rules (scaly skin/regenerate etc) do not transfer over.
On a separate note a carnosaur is pretty good at taking it down. You have to watch out for the oldblood because he can be hurt in the challenge but direct all of your s7 attacks against the chariot and then the archlector is no longer unbreakable and probably just lost combat to an outnumbering fear causing enemy, chomp chomp. He can only switch with the character not the monster underneath.
Oh and yes VHS is Van Horstmens Speculum.
Carnasaur
The Hunted
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I only play at lower level vs empire. But I do have troubles with it..
Most notably: 1+ AS knights and great cannon(s )
His knights trample my skinks, either by killing or letting them flee. I in turn cannot hurt the knights because of their amazing armor.
I cannot reach his great cannon with my skinks/teries/chameleons. He always shoots at terradons with them, killing 1 or 2 before the even come close! My skinks are forced to retreat by charges from detachments or knights. Chameleons find it hard to scout in a usefull position.
What to do? I am confident in my list, with 2x10 skirmishers, 1x10 skinks, 4 Terradons, 6-7 chameleons and a Salamander in support. I just CANNOT reach his artillery, ever.
Tips on how to reach artillery? (cannons and other war machines). Because I really find it hard
The Empire troops are cool, but not very powerfull. 10 Saurus with spears can fend them off, add more and they'll likely beat them. Just don't expect to win within a turn. Think in turns. Their heroes can only kill 1-2 Saurus at best, while our heroes smack everything in their path. VHS is nasty though...Nothing you can do about it really. (but that lone wizard that is throwing taunts at your carnosaur maybe a bit OTT)
The Hunted
Most notably: 1+ AS knights and great cannon(s )
His knights trample my skinks, either by killing or letting them flee. I in turn cannot hurt the knights because of their amazing armor.
I cannot reach his great cannon with my skinks/teries/chameleons. He always shoots at terradons with them, killing 1 or 2 before the even come close! My skinks are forced to retreat by charges from detachments or knights. Chameleons find it hard to scout in a usefull position.
What to do? I am confident in my list, with 2x10 skirmishers, 1x10 skinks, 4 Terradons, 6-7 chameleons and a Salamander in support. I just CANNOT reach his artillery, ever.
Tips on how to reach artillery? (cannons and other war machines). Because I really find it hard
The Empire troops are cool, but not very powerfull. 10 Saurus with spears can fend them off, add more and they'll likely beat them. Just don't expect to win within a turn. Think in turns. Their heroes can only kill 1-2 Saurus at best, while our heroes smack everything in their path. VHS is nasty though...Nothing you can do about it really. (but that lone wizard that is throwing taunts at your carnosaur maybe a bit OTT)
The Hunted
I think it may just be that your list will not beat his, or most other heavily armored opponents, you dont have the ranks to stop a cav charge, nor the artillery to beat more than one unit of them. The salamander will do great against a unit (well not great but 1/2 wound and 1/2 are unsaved), but if he has more than one then you can expect it to run through your army.
I am surprised you are worried about the Great Cannon, you don't really have anything worth much that it can kill. Place your Terradons so that it can at most hit one of them. You should either deploy in cover or fly so that you can get into cover and out of LOS. If he does not have any other shooting you will have a better chance of getting to him. You have a twenty inch move. Even if you cannot charge him because no LOS, move next to him (well 1" away) that way he has to guess 0" and hopefully roll a 2 on the artillery dice.
Another use is just to run skirmishing skinks at it if its unprotected on the flank. It will take 3 turns, but he can kill at most 1 skink a turn and then you will win if you charge. If he decides to divert his forces to protect his machine then you attack the other part of the army. Plus depending on hit other shooting you might actually get there. And its only 70 points if you dont.
It could also be due to having limited terrain on your board (there should be a forest somewhere or a hill or a building to get out of LOS)
Really though against that sort of list you are going to have to play point denial, and try to win through table quarters as killing 3 knights to get half points on any unit is going to be difficult.
The way to handle the knights is to use burning blade of chotek he cuts through them like butter. Put a skarvet on cold one with Chotek and a ward save and bsb, if knights get to close he can charge out of a unit of saurus and take them on himself, as well as ruin the enemies plans. Otherwise large units of Saurus to win through static combat res, and maybe a kill or two. Or large units of skinks.
To be honest though looking at your list how do you play with it normally there just doesn't seem to be anything that can actually kill the opponent besides 1 salamander, unless the opponent runs big monsters, which you then have a field day?
I am surprised you are worried about the Great Cannon, you don't really have anything worth much that it can kill. Place your Terradons so that it can at most hit one of them. You should either deploy in cover or fly so that you can get into cover and out of LOS. If he does not have any other shooting you will have a better chance of getting to him. You have a twenty inch move. Even if you cannot charge him because no LOS, move next to him (well 1" away) that way he has to guess 0" and hopefully roll a 2 on the artillery dice.
Another use is just to run skirmishing skinks at it if its unprotected on the flank. It will take 3 turns, but he can kill at most 1 skink a turn and then you will win if you charge. If he decides to divert his forces to protect his machine then you attack the other part of the army. Plus depending on hit other shooting you might actually get there. And its only 70 points if you dont.
It could also be due to having limited terrain on your board (there should be a forest somewhere or a hill or a building to get out of LOS)
Really though against that sort of list you are going to have to play point denial, and try to win through table quarters as killing 3 knights to get half points on any unit is going to be difficult.
The way to handle the knights is to use burning blade of chotek
he cuts through them like butter. Put a skarvet on cold one with Chotek and a ward save and bsb, if knights get to close he can charge out of a unit of saurus and take them on himself, as well as ruin the enemies plans. Otherwise large units of Saurus to win through static combat res, and maybe a kill or two. Or large units of skinks.To be honest though looking at your list how do you play with it normally there just doesn't seem to be anything that can actually kill the opponent besides 1 salamander, unless the opponent runs big monsters, which you then have a field day?
Carnasaur
The Hunted
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Sooo basically, I need raw knight-choppers. Or simply try to ignore them.
As for the great cannon, I suppose my terradons panic too much Will try though!
As for beating armored opponents, I posted a battle report versus brettonians. Who are, quite armored actually. And won btw The ' list' I posted is all my support stuff, there's 2x15+ saurii spears and either 2x SP+1x CotJW SV or 2xSV+more saurus in the units.
The Hunted
As for the great cannon, I suppose my terradons panic too much
Will try though!As for beating armored opponents, I posted a battle report versus brettonians. Who are, quite armored actually
. And won btw The ' list' I posted is all my support stuff, there's 2x15+ saurii spears and either 2x SP+1x CotJW SV or 2xSV+more saurus in the units.The Hunted
ahh that makes much more sense now lol.
My best bet is to run skinks skirmishers (i did it last game to moderate success) or terradons behind cover for a turn then charge.
The knights are hard to beat, but skarvets can do nicely against them. Otherwise trying to set up flank charges with skinks and saurus would be a good way to try. Last game my 12 saurus were able to hold up a unit of knights for enough time that they were then flanked by another saurus unit which broke them through static CR.
My best bet is to run skinks skirmishers (i did it last game to moderate success) or terradons behind cover for a turn then charge.
The knights are hard to beat, but skarvets can do nicely against them. Otherwise trying to set up flank charges with skinks and saurus would be a good way to try. Last game my 12 saurus were able to hold up a unit of knights for enough time that they were then flanked by another saurus unit which broke them through static CR.