7th Ed. Lizardmen vs wood elfs 1000 pts.

[Walgis]

any ideas?

 

[Walgis]

no ideas how to fight them? :s

 

[Arsenal]

Here is the insight that I have to offer. They have no big blocks really, mainly skirmishers.

You won't face Eternal Guard (WE spearmen essentially) unless the general is playing a fluff based army. The choppiest stuff you will face are Treekin and Treemen. The rest, wardancers, dryards, etc, witll break apart on a frontal battle against Saurus spears.

The WE player has a few choices. Usually it's 1-2 units of bowmen, deadly accurate, but VERY soft (T3, no armor), usually not skirmishing. 1-2 units of dryads, but an EoTG will tear them up. You get ST5 on the bomb vs forest spirits and they lose their ward save because the attack is magical.

So, EoTG is one of your best friends in this case. So is a Slann with fire magic. With his Fire magic you get X2 wounds on the Treeman and Treekin who are flammable, and you negate their ward save as well. Brutal stuff.

The four biggest threats you will face are:
The Alter: A lone WE hero who fires the Hail of Doom arrow. One use only, 3D6 S4 hits, usually on a 3+. Can effectively wipe out a unit of their choosing. But again, your EoTG ward save is the best resistance. If he was smart he would hit your Cold One Cav with this and try to remove them early, but who knows. The more targets you can present him, the less likely his to choose what you don't want him to shoot.

The Surfling Treeman: Most WE generals put their Treeman and a Spellsinger in a wood and surf it up to your line to keep the Treeman from being killed, then stepping out to battle or using his Strangleroots to take out small units and lone foes. Again, the EoTG bomb can clean that out, but if you can keep some Terradons in the wood, on the edge, then he can't surf, and you can flee when he charges you, driving him into the open. JUST PASS THAT TERROR CHECK!

Wild Rider Flank: Most generals usually run a flank of Wild Riders to try roll up your flank. Stop them and redirect them with small units of skinks. They are also super vulnerable to shooting. So focus shots on them for the biggest points trade off. Terradon rocks can also be brutal here.

Sneaky Bastard: Watch any unit of tree-spirits wholly within a wood with a hero. There is an item, the Moonstone of Hidden Ways, that allows him to teleport that unit to another wood on the board once in the game. So, depending on terrain, you can be staring at Wardancers, Dryads, Wild Riders, and if he is especially sneaky, Treekin, sitting on your flank or rear in the 1st turn. Keep crap in the woods, skinks and what not, to prevent him from teleporting, as he needs an empty clear wood to do so. Other than that, stay as far away from woods as possible.

In general, magical and flaming attacks are your best friend. The WE have few things that can take a Slann/TG block head on without a supporting flank. Castle up your center, redirect his flanks, and magic the sh*t out of him.

Thats the best I can offer from playing several games as WE's myself.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

Do you have a sample list that you have trouble with? That will make it easier to focus on things you have trouble dealing with.

 

[Walgis]

no i dont have any sample becouse its the first time im playing against it. in our club we are going to have a mini tournament of 4 people. with dwarfs i have dealt with bretonnians i will try my best but with would elfs have no idea. im a beginer to this games so i dont now alot. only in in warhammer for about a week.
can you tell me what EoTG means?

from your tells i guees i will need to take a Slann in my 1000 pts army. thats alittle pricy but going to try and put him in.
for now i think im going to go with:
slann
10skink (to keep my wood ocupyed)
5 cold one cav
meiby:
14 saurus with skink priest (priest for reason that i could hide my slann i use channel)

what do you think?

 

[Arsenal]

have no idea. im a beginer to this games so i dont now alot. only in in warhammer for about a week.
can you tell me what EoTG means?

from your tells i guees i will need to take a Slann in my 1000 pts army. thats alittle pricy but going to try and put him in.
for now i think im going to go with:
slann
10skink (to keep my wood ocupyed)
5 cold one cav
meiby:
14 saurus with skink priest (priest for reason that i could hide my slann i use channel)

what do you think?

EoTG is Engine of the Gods. It's the upgrade for a skink priest that doesn't eat up any slots. I didn't know you were playing at 1k pts. That's a much diff story. I doubt he will have a Treeman, and if he does, that's a majority of his army in one unit.

At 1K you can't take a slann, because you cannot field Lord level characters. You are stuck to your heroes, and therefore you are limited to the Lore of Heavens, which isn't that bad.

So I would takea LV1 Skink with the Engine of the Gods and the Diadem, but this can get expensive fast, so you get magic offense and defense and castle up with a big block of saurus. You want to protect the Engine so you can charge and not be charged, so you will need a unit to take other side of it. This could be Krox, Skrox more saurus, or even a unit of 3 Salamanders with max handlers. A unit or two of skink skirmishers will be useful, but your terradons will get probably get shot to hell. Also, with Krox, Skrox, Sallies, you cause fear to counter the fear of his Dryads.

The Steg works well at a cost, but it's your best bet against 1000pt shooty spam armies.

The Cold one Cav at 1k are a big point sink, and for the amount of shooting he will have it may be a scary endeavor. You would have to keep them in the Engine of the Gods Ward bubble to preserve points, and then they are way less effective as flankers since they are lined up with your core.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

You cannot put a Slann in a 1000 pt list. No Lords are allowed. Against Wood Elves I would say you need distracters and lots of smaller units. The elves are very fragile, so they will not hold up to lots of S4 attacks. Go with a couple of Spear Saurus units and maybe an EoTG (Engine of the Gods). Taking a Nike Saurus would else help against small units of shooters.

Playing the game will probably be the easiest in determining how to play them. Wood Elves can be a challenging army to face in the right hands, so be prepared for very mobile units.

 

[skinker]

Wood Elves = Probably the easiest army to beat. Have fun!

 

[Xlcontiqu]

army to beat. Have fun!

I seriously have to disagree with you here. Wood Elves are by far not the easiest army to beat. The Lizardmen have lots of ways to deal with them, but the Wood Elf army is very mobile and fast. They can easily get into your flanks and that spells trouble for Lizardmen units. When Wardancers or Wild Riders get into the flanks of something, they can put out a ton of attacks and wipe out units quickly. I would not underestimate the threat that Wood Elves pose to the Lizardmen army.

 

[Bibamus]

i tend to think that bocks of saurus are the key here. some of their shooting is S4 in short range, some of it has killing blow, but saurus can take the punishment. chamelon skinks will probably get to shoot at anything that moves [including skirmishers wich our own skirmishers have trouble with due to the additional -1 to hit]. terradons are probably awesome as the fastest things in the WE army have low armor save.
2 Lvl 2 skink priest 1 with an EotG the other with a rod of storms and cloak of feathers should e able to stay far/safe from his shooting and blast him with unlimited range magic missiles wich probably ignore his armor saves and don't roll to hit.
salamanders might also be nice due to the auto hits, flaming attacks and causing panic on the 1st wound.
also, don't let him tree sing, iirc most of the WE spells are short range, as long as he can't move his forests he'll have to step out in the opn if you deploy far from forests.

 

[Walgis]

so im going to take a priest with eothg and priest with cloak and rod, than whats beter to add:
1) 10x skink skirmisher + 2x blocks of 16x saurus
2) 2x blocks of 12xsaurus + block 13x saurus
3) salamandra + 10x skink skirmishers + block of 18 saurus
4) salamandra + block of 12 saurus + block of 13 saurus
?
thank you in advance!

 

[skinker]

army to beat. Have fun!

I seriously have to disagree with you here. Wood Elves are by far not the easiest army to beat. The Lizardmen have lots of ways to deal with them, but the Wood Elf army is very mobile and fast. They can easily get into your flanks and that spells trouble for Lizardmen units. When Wardancers or Wild Riders get into the flanks of something, they can put out a ton of attacks and wipe out units quickly. I would not underestimate the threat that Wood Elves pose to the Lizardmen army.

Yes of course you will disagree as that seems to be your favorite position to take. The only armies that might be easier to beat are orcs and goblins and ogres. Otherwise, I don't believe I've ever scored less than a solid victory against wood elves.

 

[Arsenal]

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say Wood Elves are the easiest. If you run a mad cheese list of Slann+TG, 2X EotG, More Stegs, etc then most of the old lists are pretty easy to over come. If the wood elf player is good he will keep out of combat until turn 4-5 while picking off all your units on the periphery, and then have everything fall on your core at once. Without combined charges, WE's will always fall in combat. It's all about the player who is using it. I have seen crappy Daemon & Vampire generals get rolled by Dwarves. With the fickle nature of the dice gods involved too, anything is possible.

I do agree about Ogres though, they are truly a broken list.

 

[Walgis]

plz stop arguing and answer my question i would be pleased

 

[Arsenal]

plz stop arguing and answer my question i would be pleased

LoL, can do! I would go with option #1 and castle up to the engine, using the skinks to redirect. Watch your flanks though, you are very exposed with this list. Your deployment is going to be super critical.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

I would go with option or option four for two reasons:

1.) If the Saurus have spears, the Wood Elves are going to have a hard time fending off the many attacks Spear Saurus can put out, and

2.) The Salamander adds a little extra firepower, and the panic tests would be nice for taking out any pesky archer units and the unarmoured skirmishers.

Option one is good also, because it allows you to redirect, though with Wood Elves being mainly skirmishers, it might be tough to redirect well. Like Arsenal said, watch your flanks. If the Wood Elves get into your flanks, they stand a good chance of breaking you.

 

[superskink3000]

I recently played a game against a WE force and found that small fast units are the key. The biggest strength of the WE army is their mobility, if you match that, then they are toast. A list that I used at 1000pts is the following:

Scar-vet: Add Hand wpn, LA, jaguar charm
Skink Priest: Lvl 2, Blood
11 Skirmishers: blowpipes
10 Skirmishers: blowpipes
11 Cohorts (skrox): 1 krox, banner, musician
11 Cohorts (skrox): 1 krox, banner, musician
5 CoC: banner
3 Terradons
1 Salamander

With this army you need to be pressuring the WE army from the start. In this army your minimum movement is 6 (excepting the flying saurus). Being 1 higher than an elf, you should be able to pin them in their zone. Also, this army will hit them fairly hard. Unless the WE player has an all forest spirit army, they will have a hard time in combat against your units. The scar-vet will have 5 str 5 attacks hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's against pretty much everything. Having a possible movement of 24", he will be able to strike anyone he wants from almost anywhere on the battlefield. Use the CoC to roll up the entire line while your skrox units hold and distract the main force.
I also find that when used against WE, a salamander is devastating. Instant panic and template attacks are wonderful against their skirmishing units.

I don't know how much this helps, if at all, but it's what I used and I wasn`t disappointed with the performance.

 

[Bibamus]

you can't match the WE speed and mobility, nobody can really. as long has he places/sings his forests in the right places he will just shoot you from the forest's edge and flee when you charge only to countercharge with dryads. then shoot you some more, flee, etc.
the tactic might have worked for you, but i wouldn't count on it to work on all WE players. what has been said here are anti-wood elf list suggestions. meaning lists to battle their common tactics. i the WE doesn't take advantage of his forests then oefcourse Skrox units can beat them