8th Ed. Lizardmen VS High Elves

[Haemoglobin]

Sooo, im playing a High Elves 2500 game wednesday. I know I'm going to face Teclis, together with three units of 25 Lorthen Seaguard and 4 bolt throwers. He will probably put his seaguard in two ranks (+1 model in the rear) so ill be facing a whopping 72 shots without mentioning the bolthrowers.
He is also using a unit of 19 white lions and Korahil hero.

My question is how would you guys counter this list.

Personally i was planning to take two blocks of 23 saurus warriors (each one including a scarvet). I would put a long line of either skink cohorts of skink skirmishers in front of them so they get the hard cover.

I would also try to get a skink priest (either flying or on a horned one) to Windblast a warmachine behind a hill (if there are hills). Chameleon skinks would help with the warmachine hunting.

I would also use salamanders on my flanks to kill some of the seaguard. I would shield the Salamanders with a group of skink skirmishers.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Ilnar3]

3 units of 4 terradons, and pray you get first turn, vanguard move, 1st turn charge the bolts then 2nd turn the flanks or rear of the sear guard,


Or, slaan lore of life,
Sun standard,
One unit t8
One unit -1/-2 to hit,
One unit with a 4 up save
Or both,,,,

 

[Tlax]

if i faced teclis i would take lore of light for net of amyntok cast it on teclis who i think is toughness 2 he now needs to take a toughness test at a roll 2 or less or take d6 strength 4 hits and he cant perform the action he wanted to do if he fails the toughness test so no casting spells

bironas timewarp also usefull use the all units in 12 inches and all your units will be double movement with +1 attack and asf so many ggod spells in light

agaisnt that many shots use phas protection again the 12 inch boosted version and all your units are -1 to hit with skirmishers that would be -2

i realise this depends alot on spell usage but just max the slaan and let him show high elves how to really use magic

 

[Gor-rok]

3 units of 4 terradons, and pray you get first turn, vanguard move, 1st turn charge the bolts then 2nd turn the flanks or rear of the sear guard,

If you use the vanguard move you can't charge first turn, page 79 last paragraph. Chameleon skinks might be something to consider.

 

[Ilnar3]

A very good point,
Ok, vanguard move, fly over the sea guard,
Rock them
2nd turn hit the rear of the sea guard,
They only get one rank, you should be able to hold until the rest of your force arrives from the front. Especially if they reform at the end of the fight to be head on to your terra dons,

 

[Vilicate]

Remember that you can only not charge on the first turn if you GO first. If they go first, you can indeed charge on the first turn.

That being said, that does subject you to at least one magic phase...

 

[Haemoglobin]

Well in the list ive made i have included the Cube of Darkness thingie. I'm hoping to shut down one of his magic phases that way.
Ive also been thinking to include the scroll that turns the caster into a frog, but Im not sure. I do have the cube, and the spell that locks him down (the net spell, if i take light).

Teclis is just OP

 

[Ilnar3]

t 2
That is all,
Take the blood stattueette of spite, pew, dead elf,
Take death, 2d6 - 2 hits wounding on 4s.
Take oxyotl
Um,,,,
Take life, dweller below,
Ummm,,,,
Salamander?

 

[skinky]

High Elves are very easy. Slann with Life and Becalming (this will make Teclis' job very difficult). Bring lots of chameleon scouts as they are difficult to kill at -2 or -3 if you deploy in marshes and forests. Bolt throwers really suck this edition and are easy to kill. A unit of 7 chameleon scouts has an above average chance of killing one bolt thrower each turn! Just roll 2 sixes on 14 dice and its gone.

Salamanders will make his seaguard melt as well.

 

[Eagleblaze]

I played and beat a list like this 4 weeks running, the 5th week however he changed it and things didn't quite go my way after that lol...

Skirmishers are great, his BT's will fail to kill them all and you do need to kill ALL to get the VP's so just go after them with skirmishers and when they are low on men either keep going or hide them behind your blocks thus robbing him of those VP's.

A slann with TG and the sun standard is also great, Lore of life helps you buff against their shooting.
Another idea might be the slann with HigherSoC, MR and then bane head and a feedback scroll. Nominate BH against Teclis then wait for him to throw a lot of dice at one spell, all you need is two succesful wounds with that and Teclis is gone and you get a nice 400+ (?) points.

I would be inclined to throw all the saurus into one unit of roughly 35 or so thus ensuring you will outnumber even by the time you get across under all that shooting. If you havn't used the sun standard already then getting it into that unit in the form of a BSB wouldn't be a bad idea.

Salamanders are excellent here aswell, they are 80 points with 4 handlers and are skirmishers which even though they are arrow magnets mean that if they go down then it's a turn of shooting wasted for the sake of 80 points, if they survive then they will no doubt wreak more than 80 points worth of panic.

Drop rocks will go against the BT's T value so it's not as great as it used to be but you do get stomp from terradons so charging BT's isn't a terrible idea...

Also, regardless of what may be posted above High Elves are not an easy army to beat and Bolt Throwers do NOT have two wounds, having two crew does NOT mean TWO WOUNDS. The number of crew is equal to the number of wounds that the machines profile shows, as stated in the BRB the crew are pretty much just for show.
Have a good game

-Eagle

 

[Haemoglobin]

Well i got myself a list (roughly) composed out of:

2x 23 Saurus warriors with a scarvet each (one of them with the Sun standard)
2 units of 6 chameleons
4 units of 10 skink skirmishers
2 units of 2 salamanders and 4 handlers each
3terradons
and a slann, helped out by 2 skink priests.

Should be able to do some damage and -hit from the spells of heavens and (maybe) light.

 

[Caneghem]

Also, regardless of what may be posted above High Elves are not an easy army to beat and Bolt Throwers do NOT have two wounds, having two crew does NOT mean TWO WOUNDS. The number of crew is equal to the number of wounds that the machines profile shows, as stated in the BRB the crew are pretty much just for show.
Have a good game

-Eagle

Read the warmachine section again, it is crystal clear. The number of wounds a warmachine has is always equal to the number of crew remaining. It even says the wounds on the machine itself are included "only for the sake of completeness". Elf BTs definitely only have 2 crew.

 

[Lord Tsunami]

yep. 2 crew means 2 wounds. chameleons ftw

 

[Eagleblaze]

Also, regardless of what may be posted above High Elves are not an easy army to beat and Bolt Throwers do NOT have two wounds, having two crew does NOT mean TWO WOUNDS. The number of crew is equal to the number of wounds that the machines profile shows, as stated in the BRB the crew are pretty much just for show.
Have a good game

-Eagle

I see now, the box beneath that is misleading...nevermind...

 

[twistedmagpie]

Hi all,

I know this is an old post. I'm hoping to revive the discussion. Mainly because this is the first post shown from Google. I am going to be fighting a 5000pt battle vs a high elf player who is very very good. He is far better tactically and to be honest I struggle with deployment and movement tactics.

As background, he is going to run 4 horde units including pheonix guard, white lions and seaguard if I remember correctly. Along with cavelry and bolt throwers. Oh and he'll probably have Teclis and his brother!!!!

My list is as follows...

Lord Mazdamundi (Lore of Shadow?!?!? - not decided yet, may go with fire)

Slann - Harmonic Convergence & channeling staff (Lore of Life)

Oldblood - blade of realities

Gor Rok

Chackax

Scar Vet cowboy - Steg helm

Skink preist - lvl 2 with dispell scroll and seed of rebirth

skink priest - lvl 2 with cube of darkness and talisman of protection


40 saurus - spears

40 saurus - spears

15 skirmishers

15 skirmishers

30 skink cohort - 3 kroxigor


Bastilodon - solar engine

10 chameleon skinks

10 chameleon skinks

9 cold ones - spears

31 temple guard - jag standard

4 terradons - fire bolas

4 terradons - fire bolas


ancient steg - engine of the gods/ sharpened horns

salamander - with snack

troglodon - divining rod.


Sorry about spelling and grammer - I don't have time and needed to rush this. Any advice is welcome, even if this just starts up some more discussion. I'd love to know what lores people suggest and how I should consider deployment etc. Thanks in advance....

 

[Morewar]

You can't fit all those lords in your 25% allowance.
You can't give your Slann harmonic, since mazdamundi already has it.
With mazd and a slann, you don't have enough dice for other stuff ( I'm looking at you engine )
On that note, give mazd lore of light, it's cheaper to cast (you need that when you'll have 11+ spells at your disposal ), it fits his "lord of the sun city theme, and with all the saurus in your list are going to love light.
Or you could give them both light, and show them or version of double banishment

Have 3X6 chameleons instead, you only need 2 poisons to kill a bolt thrower. I would actually run the full 6X6 chameleons at this point level, they can deal with WM, fast cav, chaff, prevent vanguards and other scouts, peel a couple wounds off a Phenix, or one of those pesky eagles, but you find points.
why chakax? Isn't the slann's ld9 cold-blooded re-rollable enoug? For his point cost you can buy a whole new unit, or 3 cowboys to add to your cold one bus.

40 saurus is less than you think. To elven elites ( which are the only things they will get in CC with) its just a large road block, especially with the buffs Teclis can pump out. One block of 60-70 with gor rok for stubborn, and with the leftover points get more skirmishers, at this scale 2 aren't enough.
Get the jag off of the TG. It is useful on the charge only (or when fleeing, but at that point...). You will charge twice, maybe thrice per game, and the banner adds on average a little under 2. So +4-6 across the game. If you fast TG, give them the mouvement banner, it helps you march faster(+2M a turn ) and give you +1 to your charge, half the benefit of the jag, for a lot cheaper. The jag is ok in conjunction with the M banner, but without its overpriced.

And to conclude : MORE SALAMANDERS!!!!! They eat elf chaff for breakfast, roast elf blocks for lunch, and runs them down for sport (swift stride ). If you don't field as many as you can in this matchup, you need a very, VERY good reason.

Edit : Please forgive the awful spelling ( f***ing phone )

 

[twistedmagpie]

Thanks for the advice man,

I made a mistake, the battle is 6000pts, I got confused because I use battle scribe and the list doesn't have the special characters in it (If anyone knows of a better one then please pop a link in here...Thanks). I didn't know that I can only use the disciplines once in an army.

I like the idea of more chameleons but I fear there will not be space on the table for it all (Usual 3x2 boards). They will be wasted if he deploys in a way that they can't get to his rear line without being charged by his units first turn (He always deploys wide and usually gets first turn). PLus he won't have any pheonix's or eagles.

I wanted to play with Chakax because I have not ever used any of the Lizardmen named characters and want to give them all a go. My thoughts were that his making my temple guard unbreakable would be a huge advantage. However if you advice that it's an utter waste of points then I shall take him out. I definately want to use Mazdamundi and Gor Rok though.

I will use extra points to buff up the saurus.

Jag banner will be removed and probably replaced with banner of swifness.

Will try for more salamanders too, never really had much use for them as I only have 1. Although in this game I will be proxying a lot to see how the army goes.

 

[Rettile]

If you wanna use Mazda consider giving him lore of life: loremaster is sweet on this lore, and high toughness/regen/recover lost wounds is sweet on an ancient stegadon

for the second Slann I'd consider WD: low casting values are your friends when you have multiple casters, and along with life's buffs you get everything you really need and even more

a naked oldblood with a BoR is quite a waste IMO: you don't need BoR to kill rank and files, and against characters you will probably strike last and die unless you buff him with magic, but don't rely too much on magic

Gor-Rok is good, Chackax not so much

I think a standard AoD GW CO SV is better than the steg helm guy

I'd drop lv2 on priests and give them lore of heavens for some protection against ranged attacks, you don't need beasts because with life you should win fights with attrition

I agree with Morewar about saurus warriors and skirmishers

Do you really have power dices for solar engine and EotG?

More sallyes. less troglodons