8th Ed. Lizardmen vs elite infantry

[Eladimir]

The new sharpened horns has given us a great tool vs monstrous Calvary but I still don't know what to throw at elite infantry.

The new executioners, warriors with halberds, white lions, even dwarves with gw.

Str 5 & 6 butchers our saurus and TG. Higher ws hits on 3, wounds on 2 and negates armour save.

I wanted to pick your brain on what your countering with. Deep skink cohorts? Just redirect and stall? Or just toss in our infantry and hope the magic support kicks in?

 

[Dreyer]

Salamanders. lots and lots of salamanders. Burn baby burn!

 

[Rettile]

sadly it seems to be the only answer we have. It's quite boring and annoying.

 

[Ondjage]

How about:

Scar vetaran, LA, enchanted shield, dawnstone, cold one

2+ rerollable armour save vs str 5 attacks


should work vs say.. swordmasters of hoeth? yes?


no..?

 

[rantapanda]

How about:

Scar vetaran, LA, enchanted shield, dawnstone, cold one

2+ rerollable armour save vs str 5 attacks


should work vs say.. swordmasters of hoeth? yes?


no..?

i think i did the math here and it was something along the lines that a pumped out scar vet or a pumped out oldblood hold their own against swordmasters, but not by too much. so they dont count as a counter against them. however they can stall them enough so ull get a flank charge in (hopefully).

against swordmasters id go with salamanders

 

[VampTeddy]

How about:

Scar vetaran, LA, enchanted shield, dawnstone, cold one

2+ rerollable armour save vs str 5 attacks


should work vs say.. swordmasters of hoeth? yes?


no..?

i think i did the math here and it was something along the lines that a pumped out scar vet or a pumped out oldblood hold their own against swordmasters, but not by too much. so they dont count as a counter against them. however they can stall them enough so ull get a flank charge in (hopefully).

against swordmasters id go with salamanders

If we don't have more than one counter we need to look at what else we've got, i agree that scar vets should be sent against stuff we don't have anything else to hold up - after all they're our toolkit, they do what they do well, and can hold up against almost anything.

I'd defo say they're an asset against Elite Infantry considering what a block would cost when we can hold it up with one scar vet.

 

[Eladimir]

And probably should be the target of the new flames of the pheonix or maybe even tempest if they are T3.

Magic and Salamanders sound like good softenning up. And those armies don't usually have alot of warmachines so perhaps its lizardmen who can sit back and wait for them while softening with BP and sallies.

I question the use of the scarvet in there. vs ST 5 you'll be hit on 4's, wounded on 4's and saving on 3+ now thats still pretty good but with a 25mm base you fighting 6 guys probably 9 attacks. Thats pretty close to a wound a round and if your unlucky 2. And vs str 6 or WS 6 might pop first round.

 

[Pinktaco]

Some statistics:

Old Blood – CO, GW, Armour of Destiny (4++ ward), Dawnstone (re-roll)
• Vs: 12 str5 ws5 attacks = (12/2= 6/2= 3/3 = 1/3= .333/2 = .166)

1 – Scar-Vet – CO, GW, DragonHelm, Dawnstone (re-roll)
• Vs: 12 str5 ws5 attacks = (12/2 = 6/2= 3/3= 1/3= .333)

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12879

More attacks and still less wounds taken.

Also how about a scar vet with glittering scales, dawnstone, shield and spear?

 

[Stormfrog]

Against glass cannon infantry, which is pretty much White Lions, Executioners etc etc, I would hurl salamanders, skink poison, magic missiles and Fiery confelgration at them. No, taking them in close combat is painfull, but we have plenty of tools to bring them down from range. One fiery conflegration and a boosted soul quanch should devastate them.

Against tougher stuff like Dwarves, halbeard warriors and the like, I really quite like the stegadon. Especially against the dreaded Halbeard chaos warriors with MoN. Flank them with a stegadon and they are in trouble, seeing as impact hits and thunderstomps bypass their -1 to hit, toughness and high armor. Every hit pretty much turns into a wound, and each wound costs the WoC player roughly 20 pts. With streangth 5, they are unlikely to do much harm against an ancient stegadon really, and the odd wound they knock of can just be healed back with Apothetis.

 

[Eladimir]

Some statistics:

Old Blood – CO, GW, Armour of Destiny (4++ ward), Dawnstone (re-roll)
• Vs: 12 str5 ws5 attacks = (12/2= 6/2= 3/3 = 1/3= .333/2 = .166)

1 – Scar-Vet – CO, GW, DragonHelm, Dawnstone (re-roll)
• Vs: 12 str5 ws5 attacks = (12/2 = 6/2= 3/3= 1/3= .333)

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12879

More attacks and still less wounds taken.

Also how about a scar vet with glittering scales, dawnstone, shield and spear?

The dawnstone is a huge difference. Without the 4++ ward and the dawnstone it is 1 wound per round.
Making those a good investment. I'm a cheapskate though and tend for the luckstone.

 

[shortlegs]

How about:

Scar vetaran, LA, enchanted shield, dawnstone, cold one

2+ rerollable armour save vs str 5 attacks


should work vs say.. swordmasters of hoeth? yes?


no..?

Best save is 1+, so that's 3+ re-rollable against strength 5.

 

[sorrowquin]

Elite Infantrie has always been tough for us to deal with and still is.

I try to avoid combat as long as possible to whittle them down to smaller sizes with Sallies and magic.
When it comes to combat any combination of buff/debuff will help. There is no "must have" spell that will tip the combat to your favor, the trick is to cast as many as possible with low casting values and get 2 off.
Wyssan's, Hand of Glory, Melkoth's, Iceshard, etc... if you get 2 of these off you should be fine, it doesn't matter which, even with Saurus.

 

[Asamu]

Shooting, Magic, Saurus characters, and overwhelming numbers of Saurus in combat has always worked for me.

The larger your unit is, the more efficient it is against smaller units engaged to the front. Since the more Elite units tend to be taken in smaller numbers, large units/hordes of Saurus and Temple guard can fight them efficiently if you are unable to whittle them down a lot with shooting and magic before reaching combat.

 

[Sleboda]

Even at this early stage in my Lizzy career, I agree with Asamu.

I don't use Salamanders or a Slann, so those options are right out. Enough poison, and enough S4 attacks will see of a lot of elite infantry...if you have the numbers to last.


A character with 2 wounds is not safe enough for me, no matter what protection he is given. I learned my lesson at the hands of Malus Darkblade that great armor is not much help. You need numbers, not characters.