TOW Lizardmen first meta data

[airjamy]

Well look at us doing well. Our n is still pretty small and a lot of this is well within uncertainty intervals, but top of the table is top of the table. Skink good unit i guess?

Source: https://woehammer.com/2024/03/25/the-old-world-meta-stats-24th-march-2024/#faction

 

[BeardedLizard]

I knew we were in a decent place but top 3 is surprising to me. Definitely can't ignore the fact that we're also one of the least played armies so our winrate is still in flux.

Why are we doing so well?
Skinks are the best ranged core unit in the game and we can go heavy with the big monsters which seem to be one of the meta defining things in Old World. High wound monsters are very good in tournament play since you don't give up points until the whole thing is dead.

Also we have a way to abuse magic and dispel ranges with the Arcane Vassal rule.

Whether you go Magic heavy/Monster heavy/Mix of the 2 I don't think you can go too wrong with the lizardmen as long as you bring plenty of skinks.

 

[RipperDerek]

I would take that data with a grain of salt. The 41 data points for Lizardmen (and in general all the numbers you see above) are total number of games played. Since BCP data is being used, I alone am probably like 9 of those data points. It's probably really only covering the performances of like 5 or 6 people, at least for Lizardmen.

 

[Kalisto]

Just don't trust to those data!

55% of tournament are done at less than 1750 points ...that means fewer dragons or flying monsters that we suffer a lot. More core units than other kind units and we have really GOOD core units (both skinks and saurus do a lot of their point cost).

Last but not least 41 games are nothing. I have done 5 by myself in the last tournament that i described in detail in the combat reports forum here: https://www.lustria-online.com/threads/first-tournament-at-2000-5-matches.27299/#post-456673.

Lizardmen is the army least played after Chaos Dwarves....many of us playing them are nostalgical player who know them well. New players buy new armies or no legacy armies and have to learn how to use them. So many data right now cannot be trusted.

One more thing....interesting that the last 5 armies have NO possibilities to have a big flying monster like a drake....is this by chance ?

 

[discomute]

Yeah super suprised at us being so high and Chaos Dwarves being so low. Otherwise more or less what I thought. Woodies are a problem.

Yeah skinks+ monsters I can see why we are high but it's sort of annoying that this graph is likely a measurement of how well you can abuse army lists. I'd happily pay extra for our monsters if they redid our multiple F grade units so we could take balanced army lists.

 

[Hendrix02]

I knew we were in a decent place but the top 3 are surprising to me. Definitely can't ignore the fact that we're also one of the least-played armies so our win rate is still in flux.

Why are we doing so well?
Skinks are the best-ranged core unit in the game and we can go heavy with the big monsters which seem to be one of the meta-defining things in Old World. High-wound monsters are very good in tournament play since you don't give up points until the whole thing is dead.

Also, we have a way to abuse magic and dispel ranges with the Arcane Vassal rule.

Whether you go Magic heavy/Monster heavy/Mix of the 2 I don't think you can go too wrong with the lizardmen as long as you bring plenty of skinks.

I would advise some skepticism regarding that data. The 41 data points for Lizardmen (and all figures mentioned) represent the total games played. Given that I account for around 9 of those data points on BCP, it likely reflects the performances of only about 5 or 6 individuals, particularly for Lizardmen.

 

[The bloated lizard]

The data depicted doesn't include the last three months or the FAQ/Errata changes.

 

[airjamy]

The data depicted doesn't include the last three months nor matches occuring after the FAQ/Errata changes.

I mean, the post is 4 months old yes, how could it? XD Looking at the data now, we really are not a well represented faction at all, we do not have a lot of players which is kinda surprising since we have good kits from AoS. So it is kinda unclear if we are strong. All tournament wins from Lizardmen are from tournaments without a rule of 3 as far as i know, 60 skinks are really carrying the faction on their backs, and if you cannot have them we ain't that great.

 

[Killer Angel]

I mean, the post is 4 months old yes, how could it? XD Looking at the data now, we really are not a well represented faction at all, we do not have a lot of players which is kinda surprising since we have good kits from AoS. So it is kinda unclear if we are strong. All tournament wins from Lizardmen are from tournaments without a rule of 3 as far as i know, 60 skinks are really carrying the faction on their backs, and if you cannot have them we ain't that great.

i would also add that i would not look at tournaments results as a reflection of the game as played by average players.
Unless you usually face
dwarfs with 10-11 gyrocopters,
HE with Archmage, prince, sea dragon, multiple archers skirmishers, Sea Guards deathstar,
Chaos with sorcerer lord, 7x10 chaos warhounds, 2x chimera, 2x chaos giants

 

[airjamy]

i would also add that i would not look at tournaments results as a reflection of the game as played by average players.
Unless you usually face
dwarfs with 10-11 gyrocopters,
HE with Archmage, prince, sea dragon, multiple archers skirmishers, Sea Guards deathstar,
Chaos with sorcerer lord, 7x10 chaos warhounds, 2x chimera, 2x chaos giants

Well you are also definitely not seeing those lists at the tournaments i am going to. most events have a rule of three which fixes a lot in the game. What the hell is the Sea Guard deathstar, have not heard about that, sounds hilarious. I have only seen the Sisters of Avelorn deathstar with the Horn for +1 to hit and wound and an Elementalism lore familiar lvl 4 to teleport them, do Plague of Rust and do magic missiles with also +1 to wound.

 

[Killer Angel]

Well you are also definitely not seeing those lists at the tournaments i am going to.

They were present in a tournament i have carefully avoided.
The point is that tournaments lists are rarely the kind of lists you see in "regular" play, so it's not that unusual to have different a win ratio, looking at the same army within different contexts

 

[airjamy]

They were present in a tournament i have carefully avoided.
The point is that tournaments lists are rarely the kind of lists you see in "regular" play, so it's not that unusual to have different a win ratio, looking at the same army within different contexts

I mean, those tournaments can be very fun as well. I find it most important when you go to an event is that you know what you are going to get. Honestly, semi comp tournaments or casual events have often been more frustrating to me than competitive events. Been to casual events where i then took a shitty list but still had to contend with a meta build and lost games because of it, and those games are never fun. In comp, at least you know what you are going to get and whatever happens you just have yourself to blame, not someone else that is not playing by the rules and bringing the filth.

 

[Killer Angel]

I mean, those tournaments can be very fun as well. I find it most important when you go to an event is that you know what you are going to get. Honestly, semi comp tournaments or casual events have often been more frustrating to me than competitive events. Been to casual events where i then took a shitty list but still had to contend with a meta build and lost games because of it, and those games are never fun. In comp, at least you know what you are going to get and whatever happens you just have yourself to blame, not someone else that is not playing by the rules and bringing the filth.

I can understand, i i cannot tell you're wrong