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8th Ed. Lizardmen Battalion from GW

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pbenner

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Hi guys,

I see a lot of general animosity on the forum in regards to the Cold One Riders unit. I guess my question would be this...

Are Cold Ones bad enough to make the Battalion a bad idea? I know that I would want the other three units, as I plan on purchasing a Slann model and would like guard to go with him.

Since I am starting brand new, I was seriously considering two battalions and filling around it.

Good or bad?

Thanks!

Paul
 
Regular Cold One riders can always be used as Scarvets or Oldbloods on Cold Ones : )
 
rantapanda said:
Regular Cold One riders can always be used as Scarvets or Oldbloods on Cold Ones : )
Click to expand...

My normal use unfortunately :(
 
The battallion is still worth it's cost since your basically getting the CO's for free.
Just do the math.

And, as mentioned before, it give you lots of bits for Scarvets on CO's which you DO want.
 
I am one of the few idiots who like Cold Ones (just don't upgrade beyond 5 and a musician) Then throw them at a tarpit they can maul them even from the front. Also that should still enable you to build 3 Scar-vet cowboys so everyone wins.
 
I bought the battalion a little while ago and everything is built except the CO riders, what bits do you use to make them in Old Bloods or Scar vets? I did not see anything that stood out to me in the battalion box.
 
You effectively pay full price for the other 3 units and only $7.50 for the Cold One Riders. I have thought about starting a Lizardman army and buying 3 battalions. Effectively I would be paying $22.50 for 3 boxes worth of CoR. More of them that I would likely ever use, but Scar Vets and Old Ones on CoR are a nice bonus.
 
Note that Cold One Riders come with snake bits for the base. If you buy some empty 40 mm bases you can glue the snake bits on them and get Swarms for next to nothing.

I am fortunate that I have a friend who is fond of ambitious conversion projects. I gave him several Cold Ones to use as a basis for Dragon Ogre conversions.
 
I'm rather new at Lizardmen myself and appreciate this discussion of the Battalion box for the army. I wanted to understand a bit more of why Cold Ones are maligned. I took a look at the pinned tactica thread (here: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/cold-one-cavalry-tactica.10320/ ) and read the comments here and a few other posts.

What I'm trying to figure out is why the dislike of them? A few hypotheses:

1) Oldboods and Scar Vets solos on cold ones are greatly valued, so most people's only Cold Ones get used for that tast first

2) The models are considered ugly, particularly when compared to the Dark Elves' Cold Ones (tho at least Lizards didn't get that dreadful low-to-the-ground chariot monstrosity that the Elves received--trade off for "better" cold ones?)

3) The unit is too expensive per model, so rarely gets fielded because of other options for the price being seen as better

4) The unit under-preforms in the game (also a metric of their points cost, but slightly different than #3)

Is it all of the above? Some combination? One more than others? I'd like the feedback before I bite on a Battalion box as well (just like the OP of this thread, I'm tempted to multiple them).

Thanks for the insights,

Andrew
 
2) yea the battle cows are what our current cold ones replaced, and there was the skinier metal ones before those, Lizardmen and dark elves used to get exactly the same model for cold ones.

This is one of the reason we where dissapointed that we didn't get the update as well.


:edited for horrable spelling.
 
Seems like most of the reasons I see people throw around GE. I still think a mostly cavalry Lizardmen army would be fun. 2 groups of 11 CoR w/full command and lances would be 404 each. Add in a pair of Scar Vets to join the groups and you would have 2 groups of 6x2 cavalry to ride around and abuse things. Now whether that is a good use of your special points is a different debate entirely :) This would also use up all the CoRs you get from 3 battalions and you would have plenty of Saurus and Skinks for core. Toss a couple of Ancient Stegs and some casters in the mix and you have a 2k or so army.
 
n810 said:
2) yea the battle cows are what our current cold ones replaed, an there was the skinier metal ones brfore those, Lizarmen and dark elves used to get exactly the same model for cold ones.

this is one of the reason we where dissapointed that we didn't get the update as well.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm glad you confirmed that n810--it seemed to be present in a lot of what I have read here. A bad model for a good unit inspires lots of awesome conversions (I'm looking at you, plastic minotaurs kit). A bad model for a poor, so-so, or even average unit means it just never makes the table.


SSquirrel said:
Seems like most of the reasons I see people throw around GE. I still think a mostly cavalry Lizardmen army would be fun. 2 groups of 11 CoR w/full command and lances would be 404 each. Add in a pair of Scar Vets to join the groups and you would have 2 groups of 6x2 cavalry to ride around and abuse things. Now whether that is a good use of your special points is a different debate entirely :) This would also use up all the CoRs you get from 3 battalions and you would have plenty of Saurus and Skinks for core. Toss a couple of Ancient Stegs and some casters in the mix and you have a 2k or so army.
Click to expand...

I agree SSquirrel. Putting out a glut of heavy cavalry can really wreck some armies' days. That would be a good one for springing on a tough opponent that you play often enough that they kind of know your current army. Build the two blocks and get them painted and ready to roll, then see the look of surprise when you roll out the unexpected variation and hit like a truck.

Cheers.

Andrew
 
I think there are lots of reasons our Cold Ones don't get used. Sub-par to 'meh' models are a factor, I guess, but not a large one. Look at the Skull Cannon. Horrible model, used a ton.

It's all about effectiveness (or at least 90% about effectiveness).

Since Cold Ones are overcosted, come from specials, and offer almost nothing truly unique (magic banner here would have made a BIG difference), the simple answer is that they just are not needed. They are a superfluous unit entry in the book.

To put it another way, there's just no compelling "Ooo, I'll have some of those please!" rule to make them stand out.
 
GreatEscape_13 said:
I'm rather new at Lizardmen myself and appreciate this discussion of the Battalion box for the army. I wanted to understand a bit more of why Cold Ones are maligned. I took a look at the pinned tactica thread (here: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/cold-one-cavalry-tactica.10320/ ) and read the comments here and a few other posts.

What I'm trying to figure out is why the dislike of them? A few hypotheses:

1) Oldboods and Scar Vets solos on cold ones are greatly valued, so most people's only Cold Ones get used for that tast first

2) The models are considered ugly, particularly when compared to the Dark Elves' Cold Ones (tho at least Lizards didn't get that dreadful low-to-the-ground chariot monstrosity that the Elves received--trade off for "better" cold ones?)

3) The unit is too expensive per model, so rarely gets fielded because of other options for the price being seen as better

4) The unit under-preforms in the game (also a metric of their points cost, but slightly different than #3)

Is it all of the above? Some combination? One more than others? I'd like the feedback before I bite on a Battalion box as well (just like the OP of this thread, I'm tempted to multiple them).

Thanks for the insights,

Andrew
Click to expand...

3 & 4, for sure. Enough people don't seem to mind the models, and more have successfully converted Dark Elf ones, for 2 to be a non-issue.

Otherwise, you have something with all the problems that Saurus Warriors have (T and AS aren't good enough to keep them alive long enough to make poor WS S4 attacks), only 3x as expensive just to get M7 Swiftstride, when right next door you have Kroxigor (M6, better damage); Ripperdatcyls (Fly, Swiftstride, better damage), and Stegadons (M6, tougher, better damage) all in the same points bracket. You could blow 370 points on 10 of them with Spears and Full Command... or you could spend the same amount on a Stegadon with Sharpened Horns and 3 Ripperdactyls.

I've seen some people say that they are good flankers or for dealing with low quality troops, but I'm unconvinced. Otherwise, it seems that they are only worthwhile for Scar-Vet delivery systems to dodge cannonballs.
 
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