8th Ed. Kroxigors and Skinks

[Avatar]

Okay, so 80% of other Lizard lists I have seen all have Skink units with Kroxigors in... Why is this? surely kroxigors on there own are better?(if seriously overpriced?) Do the skinks not just give away easy combat res points?

 

[Lord Cedric]

Because basically the skinks protect the powerful krox as lizard shields yet due to giant reach, the krox fight fully over them. The unit becomes a strong viable option that causes fear and if your slann takes lore of life, can boost toughness up +4 each model with throne of vines in play. Most of the skinks need to die before krox can be targeted, unless hit by template, cannon, or balista which is the main purpose of unit. Also its a fast unit at movement 6. The only thing you dont get with krox is stomp unless they get moved to front row from skink deaths.

 

[Agrem]

Skinks are weak there is no denying of that and they could be just easy combat resolution points to enemies. But the point here is that you have to know how to pick your fights. And then the kroxigors hit back.

Other main reasons for taking these skrox units are:
-Possible steadfast and/or denying opponents steadfast, with three kroxigors you need 24 skinks which makes total of 6 ranks.
-Cheap static combat points, banner and rank bonuses.
-Manouverability, swift reform from musician
-Meat shield for those kroxigors.
-Stand and shoot, ok, this one is not that good but hey, it's still something.

Backed up with slann magic these units are quite tough. I think that light magic is the best option for these. Buff them with WS10 and -1 to hit and your opponent has to roll 6's to hit while your kroxigors hit on 3+ and usually wound on 2+.

BR
Agrem

 

[n810]

Mostly because the combined unit counts as core, but Krox on their own don't.

 

[Lord Cedric]

Mostly because the combined unit counts as core, but Krox on their own don't.

Oh yeah. And then there's this! ^ Good add-in, n810.

 

[kroxigor01]

IMO its because a lot of people are stupid, haven't analysed to facts or aren't intending to be 100% competative.

Skinks and Krox are terrible value for points in a block. An Empire Halberdier costs the same as a skink. He has +1 WS, +1S +1T over the skink. The Skink instead has +2M and +1I (traits that might be good in a skirmisher unit, but not in a combat block).

The Kroxigors are not much better these days. They can be singled out and killed in combat (by 2 ranks of enemies) before they attack at I1. A unit of Orcs will probably be able to down 1 expensive Krox before it can hit them while a unit of chaos knights would kill ALL your Krox (what a great "can opener" these slow brutes are ).

Saurus can compete against real opponents, Skink/Krox cannot.

 

[Lord Cedric]

They cannot be singled out in cc as they are not in base to base contact with an enemy. Also, this isn't a unit designed to go up against a unit of knights or anything else with a high toughness. This is an excellent flanking unit. Also, a toughness buff will make these guys pretty withstanding. Remember: the skinks in this unit are considered "fodder" and a shield for the krox. You want to get your krox in where they can hurt the most. This unit is not a replacement for a saurus unit. But the fact of it being a core unit with krox in them makes it very attractive.

ALso, you are comparing point for point vs. a halberd unit.. of which gets +1 to their str from weapon alone. However, your neglecting to add the Krox stats of s4 t4 l7 and 3 attacks and wounds each. The skinks can also get a stand and shoot option with poison. This unit also causes fear.

There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness of this unit. IMO, the effectivness depends on the general running the army. If you're method is to go toe-to-toe with the enemy unit per unit, then no - this isn't a unit to fit your playstyle. But if you like to support units then this is a great unit to work with. It's fast and hits hard. Not much in survivability unless like I said - you buff it.

And personally, to think people are stupid because they don't agree with your way of thinking is a bit harsh. This unit IS competitive and if someone has put this unit in their army, why wouldn't they have a plan for it?.. thus analyzing their effectiveness.

 

[kroxigor01]

They cannot be singled out in cc as they are not in base to base contact with an enemy.

However pg53 of the Lizardmen Army Book says it counted as being in base contact with the enemy and so can attack and be attacked.

ALso, you are comparing point for point vs. a halberd unit.. of which gets +1 to their str from weapon alone.

?? So? What is your point? I was trying to show how badly they fail in a fight of 'equivelant' core infantry. Halberdiers are by no means the most impressive infantry in the game, but I'd back 25 Halberds over 16 Skinks and 2 Krox any day (the Halberdies cost ~60 points less). Replace the SKrox with ~17 Saurus and you'll chop up those humans good.

However, your neglecting to add the Krox stats of s4 t4 l7 and 3 attacks and wounds each.

I also didn't add the COST of the Krox. Same cost as 11 Halberdiers... Or 1 Minotaur (which IMO is slightly better)

There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness of this unit. IMO, the effectivness depends on the general running the army. If you're method is to go toe-to-toe with the enemy unit per unit, then no - this isn't a unit to fit your playstyle. But if you like to support units then this is a great unit to work with. It's fast and hits hard. Not much in survivability unless like I said - you buff it.

Its a liability. It is to huge a unit to be a flanked/support unit. A Stegadon is just as fast, cheaper, has more hitting power etc etc. Sure you can't break ranks, but what muppet is letting you flank a big block with an even bigger block in this age of free reforms? Buff it? You could have buffed Saurus instead!

And personally, to think people are stupid because they don't agree with your way of thinking is a bit harsh. This unit IS competitive and if someone has put this unit in their army, why wouldn't they have a plan for it?.. thus analyzing their effectiveness.

If I think something is stupid by extention I think people who swear by the thing are also stupid.

 

[ncharman]

I am starting to see the value of a Skrok unit, but I still prefer the old rules of Skink Screens

 

[Craken]

Lord Cedric wrote:
They cannot be singled out in cc as they are not in base to base contact with an enemy.

kroxigor01 wrote: However pg53 of the Lizardmen Army Book says it counted as being in base contact with the enemy and so can attack and be attacked.

This is errata'd in the lizarmen errata if you look at the games workshop website, Great reach is ignored, however being monstrous infantry Kroxigors get 3 attacks from the second rank, they cannot be targeted because they are not in base contact. As the normal rules for monstrous infantry, those can be found in your rulebook.

Quote:
And personally, to think people are stupid because they don't agree with your way of thinking is a bit harsh. This unit IS competitive and if someone has put this unit in their army, why wouldn't they have a plan for it?.. thus analyzing their effectiveness.

kroxigor01 wrote: If I think something is stupid by extention I think people who swear by the thing are also stupid.

As for this, though you are entitled to your opinion, you are attacking our board members and making a simple tread very hostile, please stop this, or I will be forced to use my great Mod powers. Please keep these forums clean and fun.

 

[strewart]

However pg53 of the Lizardmen Army Book says it counted as being in base contact with the enemy and so can attack and be attacked.

You are wrong. Check the LM FAQ, the 'great reach' special rule is removed due to supporting attacks. The kroxigor now just get supporting attacks from the second rank and can NOT be targetted in combat until they are moved to the front rank due to casualties.

Calm down mate, everyone plays the game differently and you see a lot of tournament lists with skrox units in them. They are never a main line unit (although if you support them with a bit of magic, they definitely can be!) their role is a support one, and having a very fast support unit that is able to deal s6 hits in combat is great. Deploy them on the flank and they can take out almost every other flanking unit in the game, after that they can use their speed to get into the flanks of opponent units while your saurus are holding them in place. Yes the skinks are very fragile and die easily, which is why the unit is best used in support where they will not face a lot of heavy attacks. Plus opponents will underestimate their potential (you are a prime example of that) and thus they will be allowed to get into a damaging position unharmed.

 

[kroxigor01]

Huh. Didn't remember that Great Reach FAQ. Probably has something to do with never taking SKrox and butchering the skinks when playing against them.

Of course, any unit played suitably well or with suitble alignment of the stars (and buffs) can be good. To me, SKrox leap out at me as expensive and wafer thin unit that requires a lot of work to get good out of. When I design lists I take two types of units. Units that kill (Saurus, Salamanders), units that die (skirmishers) and units that block the enemy then die (Chameleons, Terradons). SKrox fit somewhere between the 2 first catagories, a unit that kills some stuff, holds it up then dies. Most other armies do this (its called a tarpit), however there units are normally much cheaper or better than the SKrox.

If you can fit SKrox into your design philosophy all the best to you.

 

[cyanhawk]

I like to include a unit of 24 skinks and 3 skrox in alot of my army builds. Deploy them on a flank as far up as possible. Then use that wonderful 12" march to get them across the table. Depending on who you are playing and how well they countered your deployment you've got a solid unit running through their back field.

It only takes one flank charge from this block to break almost any other unit. You may lose a rank of skinks but you are already up 4 VP's from the flank, your ranks and their ranks being broken.

Another good point for them is they cause fear. One failed fear test and all of the sudden your skinks have the advantage in weapon skill.

Skrox is not the best unit in the LM army, but when used properly can be devastating.

 

[Arli]

Another good point for them is they cause fear. One failed fear test and all of the sudden your skinks have the advantage in weapon skill.

That is the most fun that a skrox unit can be! I love when that happens. Yea, my WS2 skinks are hitting you on 3s!

 

[Agrem]

I guess I'm the odd player out here. I like to think of my skrox units as my hammer while using saurus as anvil. I find the killing power of those saurus a bit weak. Sure they have S4 and A2 but then again having S6 attacks on can take on more tougher opponents.

But in comparison with these two if you buff both with light magic I would choose skrox over saurus any day. Both would hit on 3's but then when it comes to wounding saurus have ONLY S4 when the kroxigors swing with S6. 24 skinks + 3 kroxigors buffed with light magic suddenly became a serious thread for knights and such instead of just being support units.

In the end as said I think this mainly comes to the playing style. I like my skrox units but I'll admit if magic fails they become quite the hit and miss units where those saurus warriors are more stable and will perform anyhow.

BR
Agrem

 

[T`hinker`er]

In my experience the Skrox make an excellent anvil because they usually keep their steadfast, even in the face of meat grinder units like swordmasters. The Saurus often lose all their rank bonus and are down 5 or 6 in combat res before they even get to swing. Saurus can make a decent anvil only with the crown of command. Character points better spent on a lone killer Scar Vet on a cold one (IMO). If you try to make Saurus 6 ranks deep, I think you will find they take too many points from the rest of the army. And getting that Saurus unit where you need it to bait your enemy into a hammer/anvil strategy is hard with M4.

Also, when comparing a Skrox unit to Empire Halberdiers, don't forget to factor in the cost and advantage that cold bloodedness give you.

YMMV, but I will show up with 2 Skrox unit for every unit of Saurus if I can possibly afford the points.

Ditto on the "stupid", Btw. Let's play nice here.

 

[Avatar]

Thanks everyone for there responses, I had only made my assumption that most people prefer Skrox units through browsing threads on here and seeing a few at GW. I personally have never tried fielding one of these units, and probably won't unless i'm using a slann (which is rare).

Also quite glad that I sparked up a debate, =] always boring if everyone agree's lol.