8th Ed. Jungle swarms. Can they be worthwhile?

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

I have enough spare parts from my cold one cavalry, to make some jungle swarms, but are they worthwhile? To me they seem pretty weak, but it might be that I just does not see their role/usefulness/potential in the army.

Has anyone had any success using them? and how are they put to good use?

 

[Ixt]

Get them into a combat alongside a unit of six hunting packs & six extra handlers w/ a Skavenpelt Banner Skink Chief BSB for an ungodly amount of poisoned attacks.

Actually, don't do that... you'll lose a future opponent.

Can't link right now, but I believe there's a topic in this thread that covers our Swarms.

 

[n810]

Best used as a flanker to give a big block poison attacks.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Hmm... Alright I will make them and and try them out, (send these spawns of sotek to do some feasting on those filthy warmbloods).

Maybe beside a unit of Temple guard, to go in the flank when the Temple guard go into combat would be an idea?

 

[Pinktaco]

Get them into a combat alongside a unit of six hunting packs & six extra handlers w/ a Skavenpelt Banner Skink Chief BSB for an ungodly amount of poisoned attacks.

Actually, don't do that... you'll lose a future opponent.

Can't link right now, but I believe there's a topic in this thread that covers our Swarms.

That have got to be the most random advice ever, haha. No offense though.

6 salamanders/razordons are EXPENSIVE and you adding a squishy T3 infantry hero to a monstrous beast unit is.. Kinda odd. He'll be singled out in no time and you'll lose 200+pts just like that

If the swarms are to be considered useful you'll have to get them on a corner charge where only 2 models can direct their attacks to the swarm. Obviously put along side a unit if saurus warriors. I wouldn't personally do it though. Too much trouble just to get poison. Nah.

 

[Ixt]

Too much trouble just to get poison. Nah.

Agreed!

I know the advice is hokey (to keep in the spirit of Swarms), but it'd be such fun to roll 64 poisoned attacks!

 

[Scalenex]

I think they when used as a stalling unit, they are adequate. Not great but adequate. My one good experience with Swarms involved had two rivers. I was able to stall units in rivers. After killing said Swarm they overran one river and lost models to dangerous terrain, then ran into the other, took more dangerous terrain casualties, then they had to regular move out of it.

 

[Slanputin]

I've had really good runs with them as stalls. Usually as a massive block to stall a tricky unit, however a few times I deployed them in one massive line that tripped up a lot of their units, allowing me to pick off the others.

However, I still think they're pretty pricey for what they are.

 

[KingCheops]

If they were still core they would be pretty good. As it is their value is in giving you options that you wouldn't otherwise have. Is taking 70 points out of special worth it? That will depend on gameplay. The mathhammer doesn't check out but some of the gameplay elements do. It's too bad that the tournament scene in this game is such crap such that top players can't risk taking some to show a bad player like me how the top 5% uses them.

 

[n810]

Despite all that this is the best version of jungle swarms since 5th edition.

 

[KingCheops]

Despite all that this is the best version of jungle swarms since 5th edition.

Absolutely! That's what makes the move to special so frustrating. If the Sotekdon made new units it'd be a different story.

 

[Yrtomin]

They really should add them as a core option.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

What made them good in 5th edition?

 

[NexS1]

I don't mind them.. they're not bad as redirectors/charge blockers and poisoned attacks are nice.
But it's the choice between them and a second unit of chammos... Sometimes i just like fielding them because they're colourful

 

[n810]

What made them good in 5th edition?

I believe they didn't crumble/Squish.
(full attacks until you killed them)

also we had, what 3 or so kinds of swarms then ?
(greater, lesser, lizard, & maybe something or other)

 

[Tecuani]

Also, units had a lot less attacks, due to a lack of supporting attacks and generally lower profiles, so 5 unbreakable wounds per swarm was a lot, even at T2. So was 5 attacks over a 40mm frontage, which often gave a unit of swarms more attacks than their opponents. 8th edition changed this-20mm, one attack infantry in horde formation get 6 attacks over the same frontage as a 5 attack swarm, monsters have thunderstomp, and swarms are still S2,T2. They lost their advantages, but kept the weaknesses. Even if they were still unbreakable, their enemies have enough attacks to kill them quickly, and being unstable and without ranks means they die even faster.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

It makes them seem a whole lot weaker now.

They probably could work out well. but it seems a bit situational.

 

[Mr Phat]

While I do like the thought of poisonous saurus and templeguard,
the investment both pointwise and through tactical effort,
Is simple too large for the outcome.

And even if you do reach the attempted state on the board:
Saurusblock in front, swarm on corner
its comes with another giant risk:
Swarms bleed CR

I am pretty sure that I saw some one calculate swarms and CR:
in almost any possible scenario you could come up with,
the swarms gave away more CR than their poison accumulated.
And if "then it save saurus bodies" is your statement
then you should really just spend the 35ss on saurus bodies
,fill out your core better
and save those points for something worth it.

if "but I need some poison for *Task X*"
then skip the swarms and buy skink cohort
with javs and poison upgrade.

You get exactly 10 skinks with poison upgrade for the price of the 2+ swarms cost.
They will deliver many more poison attacks
both through ranged and close combat.
They also have a 5+ AS and parry save.
They also fill out your core.

I think the idea about swarms is neat.
I like the thought and hope they will evolve the "Lizardmen should be poisonous" idea.
This edition it just didn't work.
Maybe 9th revamps poison's worth.
Maybe not.

 

[Saurian]

They definitely can be with an Ark of Sotek (or two) and Okkam's Mindrazor... suddenly they have Strength 10 attacks...

But you can never unquestionably rely on magic.

 

[Mr Phat]

They definitely can be with an Ark of Sotek (or two) and Okkam's Mindrazor... suddenly they have Strength 10 attacks...

But you can never unquestionably rely on magic.

Further investing in 1 or more special choices
locking yourself on shadow lore
to make swarms work......SOMETIMES?


one bastiladon can at MAXIMUM POTENTIAL deliver 210 pts of swarms.
it is on 4+ so statistics half that to 105.
and that is IF said the bastiladon even survives for all 6 turns.

and on the mindrazor...you know what also kicks with it?
Saurus

I can honestly say: I cant think of situation where i'd rather have S10 swarms over S8 Saurus.