AoS Improved Flyers

[Kilvakar]

I was just musing recently and I wondered, why are flying units always able to be charged and tied up in melee? It makes absolutely no sense that they are considered to be always flying at ground level. So you want to tell me that our Terradons or Ripperdactyls can fly up and over any obstructions, but always immediately drop back down to just a few feet off the ground?

I just thought it would be fun to ask what people thought about giving flying troops rules more similar to how flying works in TW:WH where they can avoid melee combat if they want, but are more vulnerable to shooting and other flying units as a result? I know that the GHB 2020 introduced the optional Sky Battles rules, but I personally think it would be quite interesting if some, though not all, flying troops could actually fly up to avoid getting pinned down in melee.

Of course, things that make sense to be floating just above the ground like Nighthaunt would remain the same as they are now. But it would really shake up listbuilding if suddenly Terradons, Griffons, Gyrocopters, Dragons and Phoenixes could all move freely in the air without being able to be constantly rushed by ground troops, and only have to worry about ranged attacks or other flying units...

 

[Carnikang]

I believe the old Terradon/Ripper rules from the old warscrolls reflected this alright. Of course, those were designed back when the actual reach of the models were measured..... But, I digress.

I think creatures that would fly as their normal mode of movement should have rules that put them out of reach from MOST melee (3" perhaps reach when you're BtB), but would just be as vulnerable to shooting as they are now. Allow melee from other flying units too, could read like....

"Airbourne: This unit is said to be above the battlefield out of reach of most enemies. Melee weapons may not be used to make attacks against this model unless they are range 3" and in base to base contact, or the model attacking has Fly.
Edited:This model may also not make melee attacks unless they have decided to land, or unless the targeted model has Fly. "

 

[xoid]

If you were to do something like that I think you'd have to say the flying unit also couldn't attack with anything that didn't have a 3" range for melee, unless it decided to 'land' at which point it is treated as a normal ground model.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

If you were to do something like that I think you'd have to say the flying unit also couldn't attack with anything that didn't have a 3" range for melee, unless it decided to 'land' at which point it is treated as a normal ground model.

that is how they used to do it

 

[Carnikang]

Added a small edit to the Airborne keyword, and in addition I redid it in an all encompassing rule.

"Flight or Fight: Models in this unit may be Airborne or Landed at the start of the game. At the start of each of your movement phases, pick Airborne or Landed as a position for all models in the unit.
Airborne models are unable to be targeted by melee weapons used by models in the Combat Phase unless they have Fly, and may not attack with melee weapons unless the targeted models have Fly.
Landed models may attack in the Combat Phase as normal. Performing a charge move automatically changes a model's position to Landed unless the unit charged has Fly"

I think that seems fair.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Added a small edit to the Airborne keyword, and in addition I redid it in an all encompassing rule.

"Flight or Fight: Models in this unit may be Airborne or Landed at the start of the game. At the start of each of your movement phases, pick Airborne or Landed as a position for all models in the unit.
Airborne models are unable to be targeted by melee weapons used by models in the Combat Phase unless they have Fly, and may not attack with melee weapons unless the targeted models have Fly.
Landed models may attack in the Combat Phase as normal. Performing a charge move automatically changes a model's position to Landed unless the unit charged has Fly"

I think that seems fair.

all you need now is a general bonus for dive bombing people and you are good to go.

 

[Carnikang]

I was honestly thinking that could be warscroll dependent, as this was sort of just a general idea for most Flying machine/flyer units.

Rippers could have their rerolls back, Terradons could have +1 to hit or -1 to be hit in melee.
Landing a Flier unit should generally be a last ditch effort in my opinion. Of course dropping rocks after a charge is nice for Terradons....

Should have added that Airborne units can't be charged but for units with Fly as well. Would prevent me shenanigans and all that.

Ah well, should do another rewrite and send it off to GW.

 

[Canas]

There's one major issue with giving flyers broad special rules like this; there's entire armies of flyers in AoS. Which means broad special flying rules like this would probably be problematic. Just imagine an entire KO army you can't fight because you're playing a Orruk army simply shooting you off the table while flying up high. Or a nighthaunt army that's entirely immune to rend and has a global -1 to hit because you have no flyers.

They could of course introduce more specific rules like a fatemaster's "Hovering disc of tzeentch", or a terradon chief's "Lead from on high". But that'd need to be limited to specific units where it wouldn't be problematic.

 

[Kilvakar]

There's one major issue with giving flyers broad special rules like this; there's entire armies of flyers in AoS. Which means broad special flying rules like this would probably be problematic. Just imagine an entire KO army you can't fight because you're playing a Orruk army simply shooting you off the table while flying up high. Or a nighthaunt army that's entirely immune to rend and has a global -1 to hit because you have no flyers.

They could of course introduce more specific rules like a fatemaster's "Hovering disc of tzeentch", or a terradon chief's "Lead from on high". But that'd need to be limited to specific units where it wouldn't be problematic.

I definitely think that armies like Nighthaunt and KO would need different rules for their flyers. I think I mentioned that in my first post. But yes, KO's Fly High rule would have to be tweaked, and Nighthaunt would probably just stay as they are. You could say that the ghosts were floating just above the ground, but were unable to go out of melee range, except for probably Reikenor since he has a winged mount.

I was just thinking how it makes little sense for things like Terradons, Griffons, gyrocopters, etc. to essentially be hovering a few feet off the ground at all times. Borrowing from Total Warhammer once again, you could add a rule that units with the improved flying rules don't claim objectives unless they're low enough to be in melee. Similar to how you you auto-lose in TWWH if you don't engage units on the ground if you have an all-flying army.

 

[Canas]

I was just thinking how it makes little sense for things like Terradons, Griffons, gyrocopters, etc. to essentially be hovering a few feet off the ground at all times.

Sure, it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense and is game-y. But I don't think you can make a general flying bonus like that that will work well in AoS. It's simply too easy to just spam one (or a few) units and abuse the hell out of rules like that. Not to mention the potential hilarious interaction with spells/abilities/artifacts that can give flying as a bonus.

You'd simply need to put in far too many exceptions to ensure that it can't be abused, and that'd just be confusing. At that point you might as well just stick it on the respective warscrolls where it is balanced.

The ideas for the special abilities themselves aren't necesarly bad, it's just pretty much guaranteed that someone is going to find some way to abuse it if you put it in as a global rule that affects all (or most) flyers.

 

[Dread Saurian]

all you need now is a general bonus for dive bombing people and you are good to go.

Avian horror- The Ripperdactyl is a voracious Arial predator that dive bombs its prey from above where it's prey rarely expects to be attacked from on successful charge The Ripperdactyl gains +1 to hit rolls for that round of combat

Swooping Terror- The Terradon shrieks as it dives down startling its prey and spears its prey with its hardened snout on a successful charge The Terradon gains +1 to wound for that round of combat

 

[Dread Saurian]

Lads I made some adjustments if ya want to review

 

[Jason839]

I miss the days of having all my rippers on the 3 inch flight stand so most people couldnt engage them lol.

 

[Killer Angel]

Well, i would also strongly consider a rule similar to the 40k one. High flyers cannot be attacked in cc by ground units, but at the same time they cannot control objectives

 

[Jason839]

Im kinda glad flying doesnt matter in aos. Having been through the hell that 40k flyers used to be, its a difficult ability to balance, and GW isnt the best at it, Better off being left to flavor instead of game breaking,

 

[Carnikang]

Im kinda glad flying doesnt matter in aos. Having been through the hell that 40k flyers used to be, its a difficult ability to balance, and GW isnt the best at it, Better off being left to flavor instead of game breaking,

I think it's pretty impactful already, allowing units to jump screens, move over terrain and such, as well as generally benefitting from higher movement (as flying units tend to be fast because they fly/lore justifying speed in flight/etc).

I wish it mattered slightly more, or their were unique rules that interacted with it a bit more. There are a few, but there not a huge amount of counterplay to the fly keyword.