8th Ed. Help Verses Ogres

[Cha Izard]

Hi guys im pretty much a noob with lizardmen and playing against ogres. I had a 1000 point on Tuesday and it all went well but there were a few things I just couldn't get my head around playing the battle which I hope you lovely people and veterans could help me out with.

Things that went right.

My ancient steg charged into a unit containing his fire belly and ogre bulls and won the combat res causing them to flee and proceed to mow them down. During the game he also stood up to a torrent of fire on the way in from his leadbelchers which was also awesome to watch him hang his head in shame.

The thing I had no answer for

MOURNFANG!!!! I think I did the right thing by just keeping him busy with skinks while my Steg ate up the most of his army.

My question to my fellow cold blooded is how do I deal with these units?? Is there a unit that can stand toe to toe with these over powered mutant kitten riders??? I hate them and I want to make my pals face drop when I grind them to a pulp!

Cheers guys
Be lucky

 

[Arli]

Do not let him charge them in, ever!

Deny him the impact hist he gets with his units. Then poison them to death.

 

[Screamer]

The answer is the same for most questions like this one:
Skinks
cowboys
magic

 

[Noveltyboy]

Use skink skirmishers to redirect mournfang and you ancient to hit them in the side. On a good roll his impact hits could kill 3 easy, even a bad one shoukd still win the combat and mock their pants ld

 

[Zwuppie]

At 1000 points they are difficult to handle, however an ancient stegadon charging can kill them. Charging with Saurus warriors with an oldblood with 1+/4++ could also work!

I used this profile on my oldblood which take out two mournfangs in a 1000pts battle:

Oldblood
- Sword of Might
- Armour of Destiny
- Dawnstone
- Shield

You can deal enough damage to kill them, don't forget to challenge if he has a champion! Or he accepts and he has to attack your oldblood 3+ rerollable 4++ (think he would not be able to kill you) or less attacks!

Else play a signature slann.. Searing doom and watch them burn!

 

[Screamer]

He doesn't have to accept the challenge with the champ, and if he refuses he doesn't lose anything.

 

[Zwuppie]

When you refuse a challenge the model is placed to the back of the unit and may not attack for the rest of that close combat phase..

 

[GhostWarrior]

@Zwuppie - The challenge rules specifically point out that champs cannot be chosen to be sent to the back upon challenge refusal. This is another one of those changes between 7th and 8th editions and one that a lot of veteran's teach to newer players incorrectly.

On the OP -

As pointed out, Ogres are generally the most competitive army at 1k - and it sounds like your opponent brought the optimal build. Firebelly, Ironguts, Leadbelchers, Mournefang, Ironblaster - sound about right?

Despite this, Lizards do have the tools at 1k to make beat this matchup.

Scar Vets are well tooled - Go great weapon and good defense on a Cold One for the 1 you can fit.
Lvl 1 Heavens priest. The -1 to hit is valuable in combat, as is the -1Ld. Nerfing the cannon half the time (or halfing the general effect of the LB's - going from 5's to 6's or 6's to 7's) is also useful. If he doesn't take the cannon, Beasts could work pretty well too.
Skinks for redirecting
Ancient Steg with Sharpened horns is nasty vs the Ogres.


On the Mournefang - It sounds like you handled them just fine. If you really want to kill them, then at this points level, a Scar Vet Cowboy is probably the best bet. He should go in solo, and on the flank ideally. That's your best chance for taking them out/breaking them and catching them. The steg has a decent shot, though he needs the charge/flank more than the Scar vet does (though neither wants to be charged!)

To expand on what I was saying:

The reason you only charge the Cowboy into the fight, is you want to reduce the damage he can cause to you and increase your odds of winning. If you charge in the front, only 2 Mournefang will get to attack you. Lets say one of these was your Scar Vet build:

Scar Vet, Cold One, Light Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster's Shard
or
Scar Vet, Cold One, Great Weapon, Armour of Destiny

In either case, the riders, with their 6 Attacks will get ~3 hits, and 1 wound which you have a 2+ re-rollable or a 2+, 4++ against - both highly likely to save. The Fangs 8 attacks will get ~4 hits, ~2 wounds, and you have a 3+ re-rollable or 3+, 4++ against. Again, likely to save, or maybe take 1 wound.

In your attacks back, you get 3ish hits (and half the time roll up a PF), and get 3 wounds. He gets a 6+, 6++ against that (which he has to re-roll if you've taken the first guy). Likely, you win combat and force him to test at Ld7.

Things change when hexes and augments come into play. Your odds start to improve with either an Iceshard or Wyssan's cast, while his won't get significantly better with his Firebelly (and worse if you have the 1st build).

The 1st build is generally better here, but has the distinct disadvantage of being very vulnerable to cannons (of which, the Ironblaster is one of the best).

The reason the Steg is worse in the fight is that he needs the charge, and after that he has a harder time putting wounds through. His Toughness is nice, but the Mournefang can bring 3 models to bear against him, and with the kitties cranking out 12 Strength 5 attacks, some will be getting through every round.

Note that in both of these situations, the optimal units to take against the Mournefang are units that can't be stomped. Kroxigor can work too, but they need the flank even more than the others, and they are hard to field in any usable size at 1000pts.

Hope this helped!