8th Ed. Going up against Ogre Kingdoms again (2000 points)

[Morglum]

Right so in the campaign we are doing it is time to fight the ogres again (i always pick a fight in the campaign with the player who has the most points to spend). So far i haven't won a battle against these brutes (outside the campaign as well) and i'm having a hard time fielding a good army against them. The closest i got was when i fielded an old blood with the piranha blade.

So instead of posting an army here, i would first like to take your guys input and make an armylist afterwards in this thread.

My opponent always fields atleast one cannon, leadbelchers, slaughter master, butcher bsb and a lvl 1. Then he tests things out, of course he fields some normal ogres, sometimes big beasts. Problem i have with them is that his units are so damn fast, it doesn't take long before we are in CC.

I'm afraid to take a carno (which could work i guess) because of his shooting, one direct hit from a cannon and bye bye carno. I have some ideas in my mind, for instance taking 2 old bloods and a skink priest. I could go heavy skink, because to be honest those skinks always did a good job with their posion and his low armor saves.

Any advice is welcome!

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Right so in the campaign we are doing it is time to fight the ogres again (i always pick a fight in the campaign with the player who has the most points to spend). So far i haven't won a battle against these brutes (outside the campaign as well) and i'm having a hard time fielding a good army against them. The closest i got was when i fielded an old blood with the piranha blade.

So instead of posting an army here, i would first like to take your guys input and make an armylist afterwards in this thread.

My opponent always fields atleast one cannon, leadbelchers, slaughter master, butcher bsb and a lvl 1. Then he tests things out, of course he fields some normal ogres, sometimes big beasts. Problem i have with them is that his units are so damn fast, it doesn't take long before we are in CC.

I'm afraid to take a carno (which could work i guess) because of his shooting, one direct hit from a cannon and bye bye carno. I have some ideas in my mind, for instance taking 2 old bloods and a skink priest. I could go heavy skink, because to be honest those skinks always did a good job with their posion and his low armor saves.

Any advice is welcome!

How many Skinks do you have?

Do you have any Chamo Skinks? Terradons?

Do you have any Stegadons? Kroxigor?

Maybe you can just list out what you have (and whether your opponent will allow proxy models).

Then we can plot and plan

 

[Morglum]

I got everything

 

[Lizards of Renown]

I got everything

I would take a couple of units of Chamo Skinks for the Cannon and also to harass units.

I'd take a bunch of Skink Skirmishers to A) poison attack his units and B) redirect them into awkward positions.

I'd have Saurus blocks moving into position to counter charge them after, supported by 4-strong Krox units to flank charge them (4 strong in a 2 across, 2 deep formation gives you all attacks and minimizes the return damage as he can't attack in ranks to the sides.)

I'd have 2 Ancient Stegadons with Giant Blowpipes also for counter charging.

My basic plan would be mess with his advance with the Chamo's and Skirmishers then counter charge with Saurus/Krox or Saurus/Stegs.

(Don't let the Stegs go into combat by themselves, they'll get beaten up badly. Especially since they won't get Thunderstomp.)

 

[Morglum]

I would take a couple of units of Chamo Skinks for the Cannon and also to harass units.

I'd take a bunch of Skink Skirmishers to A) poison attack his units and B) redirect them into awkward positions.

I'd have Saurus blocks moving into position to counter charge them after, supported by 4-strong Krox units to flank charge them (4 strong in a 2 across, 2 deep formation gives you all attacks and minimizes the return damage as he can't attack in ranks to the sides.)

I'd have 2 Ancient Stegadons with Giant Blowpipes also for counter charging.

My basic plan would be mess with his advance with the Chamo's and Skirmishers then counter charge with Saurus/Krox or Saurus/Stegs.

(Don't let the Stegs go into combat by themselves, they'll get beaten up badly. Especially since they won't get Thunderstomp.)

What about lords and Heroes?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

What about lords and Heroes?

Up to you. Piranha Blade is a good one. Having Cowboys is a good idea as it means they are immune to stomp attacks. Magic items that give your SV or Old Blood additional attacks are good (as they are Strength 5 already and with more Predatory Fighter chances you could chew through some Ogre units).

Definitely do your own build, as the named Characters (with exception of Kroak and Tetto'eko) aren't worth their points cost and you can divise better ones yourself.

 

[Morglum]

Quickly made a list, i'm open to changes and feedback of course. Right here we go:

LORDS

Old blood, shield, light armor
Magic: Piranha blade, talisman of preservation

Old blood
Magic: Armor of destiny, sword of strife

HEROES

Skink priest lvl 2, lore of beasts
Magic: dispell scroll

CORE

28 saurus warriors full command (one old blood and priest go in here)

24 Saurus warriors full command (one old blood goes in here)

3x10 skink skirmishers

SPECIAL

2x5 cham skinks

4 kroxies

RARE

Ancient steggie with blowpipes

The idea: Like Lizards of Renown suggests harras him with skinks and redirect and hopefully get a charge in with my saurus warriors (or get charged and hopefully have steadfast), flank him with either the kroxies or steggie. Now i could always drop an old blood and ditch one block of saurus warriors to buff up one saurus warrior unit alot but only having 2 chars seems a bit low, also if i drop the old blood i would probably pick up a scar vet as bsb but then i would have to set up 2 blocks again of saurus warriors because having 3 chars in one block is a bit overkill.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Quickly made a list, i'm open to changes and feedback of course. Right here we go:

LORDS

Old blood, shield, light armor
Magic: Piranha blade, talisman of preservation

Old blood
Magic: Armor of destiny, sword of strife

HEROES

Skink priest lvl 2, lore of beasts
Magic: dispell scroll

CORE

28 saurus warriors full command (one old blood and priest go in here)

24 Saurus warriors full command (one old blood goes in here)

3x10 skink skirmishers

SPECIAL

2x5 cham skinks

4 kroxies

RARE

Ancient steggie with blowpipes

The idea: Like Lizards of Renown suggests harras him with skinks and redirect and hopefully get a charge in with my saurus warriors (or get charged and hopefully have steadfast), flank him with either the kroxies or steggie. Now i could always drop an old blood and ditch one block of saurus warriors to buff up one saurus warrior unit alot but only having 2 chars seems a bit low, also if i drop the old blood i would probably pick up a scar vet as bsb but then i would have to set up 2 blocks again of saurus warriors because having 3 chars in one block is a bit overkill.

You seem to be over quota on Core, is that right?

It all seems fine, but I don't understand why you aren't taking the Slann/Temple Guard unit...?

We are the only army where we can have a wizard, who is also the general, who is also the BSB. It's quite a vicious combo. Not the least of which is the fact that many spells which are pretty useless on a normal wizard (as the enemy can just target them and kill them off easily) suddenly become pretty dangerous on the Slann. Like Lore of Life with the regen spell and the spell that brings models back to life. If you so choose, you can make this a deathstar and even take 2 magic standards (as the TG can have one as a unit and the Slann can have one as BSB).

The Temple Guard also become Stubborn with the Slann, prevent him from being attacked until there are literally only a few left and with the Slann's leadership 9 (using Cold-Blooded rule) your 3-dice leadership test becomes very, VERY difficult to fail. You are practically are unbreakable at this point.

If you can make it fit with the points, I'd make one Saurus unit with 7 across (you could even do 8 as then you get the maximum benefit of your 2 attacks per front rank model and thus more Predatory Fighter chances, since his Ogres will likely be three across) and then one large TG unit with the Slann.

Pair one of them with the Krox and one of them with the Steg.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Morglum]

You seem to be over quota on Core, is that right?

It all seems fine, but I don't understand why you aren't taking the Slann/Temple Guard unit...?

We are the only army where we can have a wizard, who is also the general, who is also the BSB. It's quite a vicious combo. Not the least of which is the fact that many spells which are pretty useless on a normal wizard (as the enemy can just target them and kill them off easily) suddenly become pretty dangerous on the Slann. Like Lore of Life with the regen spell and the spell that brings models back to life. If you so choose, you can make this a deathstar and even take 2 magic standards (as the TG can have one as a unit and the Slann can have one as BSB).

The Temple Guard also become Stubborn with the Slann, prevent him from being attacked until there are literally only a few left and with the Slann's leadership 9 (using Cold-Blooded rule) your 3-dice leadership test becomes very, VERY difficult to fail. You are practically are unbreakable at this point.

If you can make it fit with the points, I'd make one Saurus unit with 7 across (you could even do 8 as then you get the maximum benefit of your 2 attacks per front rank model and thus more Predatory Fighter chances, since his Ogres will likely be three across) and then one large TG unit with the Slann.

Pair one of them with the Krox and one of them with the Steg.

Let me know what you think.

I hear ya about the slann, but i don't always fancy fielding one. It becomes boring always fielding one with TG's. Yes it is obvious this is a killer combo, but i did have wins with putting up an old blood on the battlefield. Last time i came close to a victory i did field an army without a slann but with an old blood.

Yes i'm over the quota for core. But our core is serious business. Although we only have 2 decent choices, these are solid ones.

Where i find our special/rare troops not that 'good'. These special and rare troops are also most of the time being shot at it and/or my opponent uses magic on them.

Do you always field a slann if possible (pointwise)?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

I hear ya about the slann, but i don't always fancy fielding one. It becomes boring always fielding one with TG's. Yes it is obvious this is a killer combo, but i did have wins with putting up an old blood on the battlefield. Last time i came close to a victory i did field an army without a slann but with an old blood.

Up to you obviously. Nothing wrong with a tooled up OB.

Yes i'm over the quota for core. But our core is serious business. Although we only have 2 decent choices, these are solid ones.

Where i find our special/rare troops not that 'good'. These special and rare troops are also most of the time being shot at it and/or my opponent uses magic on them.

Our core are medium. Neither bad nor excellent, due to their con's balancing out their pro's (WS and movement on the Saurus, toughness on the Skinks). TG are good, but are let down by movement. Kroxigor are situationally good, but suffer due to initiative and ASL. None of our Special or Rare are exceptional just by themselves. However, the Lizardmen army excels at synergy IMHO and you can combine / support troops with other troops which make them very dangerous.

Again, up to you. I would note however that if your opponent has shooty things, then whatever you field is going to get shot at...

Personally, I very rarely use over my Core-Tax amount of 25%.

Do you always field a slann if possible (pointwise)?

Yes. IMHO Slann is a must include if you are playing of a points size for this. And if I'm fielding a Slann then I'm fielding TG. (Remember that TG have halberds so will be striking at S5).

Usually with a couple of Slann abilities: Becalming Cogitation as a must-include and then either WD or FoM.

 

[Cptn Timmy]

I would be a little wary of going against ogres without a slaan because their magic, left unchecked, can be devastating. Maybe 2 skink priests with double dispell could try to damper it but if that slaughter master gets the +1 toughness and regen spell you might have a hard time gaining points off his unit.

In regards to a carnosaur you could take a cheap one with a barely tooled scarvet and be sure to bring a lot of camos or war machine hunters, because if you get that cannon off the battlefield then he will be able to run rampant. Find a piece of terrain to hide behind until your hunters get the job done, of course there is always the risk of losing that 300 pts turn one to the cannon. The good news is with lizards you have the ability to dictate the pace of the battle because his only option is to come at you, look to set up a kill box that he has to bring his expensive units in to. You need flanks against the ogres (or the nigh unkillable old blood) because they can move their powerful characters to the front of a unit and deny you almost all combat res.
Good luck!
Edit: I also don't mind going over on my core because I find the saurus to be a very points efficient option, if I want to have 2 or 3 combat blocks I sometimes use lots and lots of saurus. I once fielded a 2000 pt army with 100 saurus warriors to see how they would fair. And it worked out well. Although the slaan was necessary to be able to buff the right units.

 

[Cptn Timmy]

Also watch out for the hell heart! If he plays it on his lvl1 then high magic's arcane unforging can be a life saver. But I guess not having a slaan also counteracts the hellheart some what.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

I would be a little wary of going against ogres without a slaan because their magic, left unchecked, can be devastating. Maybe 2 skink priests with double dispell could try to damper it but if that slaughter master gets the +1 toughness and regen spell you might have a hard time gaining points off his unit.

In regards to a carnosaur you could take a cheap one with a barely tooled scarvet and be sure to bring a lot of camos or war machine hunters, because if you get that cannon off the battlefield then he will be able to run rampant. Find a piece of terrain to hide behind until your hunters get the job done, of course there is always the risk of losing that 300 pts turn one to the cannon. The good news is with lizards you have the ability to dictate the pace of the battle because his only option is to come at you, look to set up a kill box that he has to bring his expensive units in to. You need flanks against the ogres (or the nigh unkillable old blood) because they can move their powerful characters to the front of a unit and deny you almost all combat res.
Good luck!
Edit: I also don't mind going over on my core because I find the saurus to be a very points efficient option, if I want to have 2 or 3 combat blocks I sometimes use lots and lots of saurus. I once fielded a 2000 pt army with 100 saurus warriors to see how they would fair. And it worked out well. Although the slaan was necessary to be able to buff the right units.

Also watch out for the hell heart! If he plays it on his lvl1 then high magic's arcane unforging can be a life saver. But I guess not having a slaan also counteracts the hellheart some what.

Both good points.

In the end, the most important thing is not who you bring but your plan of how to use them. Make sure you have a definite battle plan in your mind and then adjust the list accordingly.

 

[Morglum]

Won the battle yesterday with the list above, with one exception, ditched a unit of Cham skinks and buffed up the big saurus block unit to 34.

Keypoints in the battle:

A unit of 10 skink skirmishers killed the only cannon he fielded.

My ancient steggie was able to charge a unit of 4 iron guts (with a lvl 1 in it) in the flank. The steggie was meh only inflicting 3 wounds with impact hits and attacks. I even had the sharpened hornes upgrade. But the skinks on top did 4 wounds . I rolled 4 6s to wound. Ironguts break, i stomped them down. I did lose the ancient steggie from a charge with his cavalry (i flee, he caught me).

My general with the pirhana blade was brutal as well. Doing 6 wounds on his cavalry and 9 wounds on a unit ogres.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Won the battle yesterday with the list above, with one exception, ditched a unit of Cham skinks and buffed up the big saurus block unit to 34.

Keypoints in the battle:

A unit of 10 skink skirmishers killed the only cannon he fielded.

My ancient steggie was able to charge a unit of 4 iron guts (with a lvl 1 in it) in the flank. The steggie was meh only inflicting 3 wounds with impact hits and attacks. I even had the sharpened hornes upgrade. But the skinks on top did 4 wounds . I rolled 4 6s to wound. Ironguts break, i stomped them down. I did lose the ancient steggie from a charge with his cavalry (i flee, he caught me).

My general with the pirhana blade was brutal as well. Doing 6 wounds on his cavalry and 9 wounds on a unit ogres.

Nice one!

Glad to see the Chamo Skinks did their thing with the cannon!

 

[Morglum]

Nice one!

Glad to see the Chamo Skinks did their thing with the cannon!

It weren't the chams mate, regular skink skirmishers