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AoS Going for a Seraphon army!! Advice needed :)

Toltecatl
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Toltecatl

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Hey guys!

So I've been starting to think about what kind of army i'd like to field for AoS… i gathered some insight from the other topics and thought i'd try and ask for advice more straightforwardly now :)

The first models i got are the starter box, because i wanted to paint a carno anyway and the box was basically one carno plus other models for the same price ^^

Having read some of the discussion, i think I'd like to go for an army which has a strong defensive base, which is at its best with the eternal starhost i think. So i'd field 3 units of temple guards (10-15 each?), one of them done by converting the saurus warriors in the box into TGs, plus an eternity warden and (if you guys agree) an astrolith just to make that core really, really efficient.

In addition to that, there are several tactical roles i need to get covered:
- i think a slann is just a must-have for any seraphon army so i'll get one as my first addition.
- a more offensive force would be nice. To me that would prob be something like one or more units of knights (maybe with a scar vet?), and/or sallies and/or razordons, and/or possibly ripperdacs. And, of course, the oldblood on carno :D
- to boost my shooting phase, especially against chaos daemons: a bastiladon.
- one or two harassment units: pteradons, chameleon skinks?
- maybe a little magic (skink starpriest) or buff (priest)?

One solution i thought of was simply to add a firelance starhost to the eternal starhost, in order to get the bonus going for those lances, but i think it's not the best option as that would leave too many tactical options behind. right now i think i should just add some models here and there to fill in these blanks as I go.

So what do you guys reckon, if you care to help ? Do you think choosing the eternal st. as a core sounds right? what should i add as my next priority?
Thanks in advance and peace out :)
 
If your a defensive player your spot on with guards and they should make up around a 1/3 of your army (as would warriors or knights)

Lord kroak is great as is a basilidon, don't add knights or warriors with guards as they are offensive units.

The guys have started doing army lists for AOS check that out if you have not already.
 
A Slann fits really well in any seraphon's army, so you're good with him.
As defensive setting, Guards + Slann + Warden + Astrolith, are one of our strongest option (even better with kroak instead of a normal Slann)
Of course, you shouldn't mix defensive units with aggressive ones (unless you're playing big games).
The starter box already gives you the carno, the warriors (which you are losing, for conversion into guards) and knights: add some more knights, and you'll also have what's required to field the Firelance Starhost. This way, you can choose between a defensive army and an offensive one.

Any question?
 
If you're going for a defensive Guard style, then definitely use Kroak for your Slann. Every other army needs the Starmaster, but Kroak is pretty much the master of defensive warfare here. An Astrolith is perfect because not only will your Guard be immobile in order to gain their D3 Damage buff from the Starhost which allows them all to gain the Rerolls To Hit that the banner offers, but it's also a vital part of Kroak's playstyle. If you keep your formation tight, using your Guard to form a box around your squishy heroes to protect them (and maybe have a rearguard of a couple of monsters so you have defense on four sides) then your opponent is likely to surround you in an attempt to break through your box. When this happens, Kroak's ability to triple-cast Celestial Deliverance becomes extremely powerful as the Astrolith not only nets him a +1 to his casting, but also a bonus 8" range for his spells so your attack will hit at a 3D6+8" range, practically a 5D6" range. This is realistically capable of hitting entire armies all at once as soon as you begin to be surrounded.
 
Thanks a lot guys, useful advice as usual :) so i'm def going for Kroak, astrolith and additional TG for starters.

@Crowsfoot @Killer Angel Yep, i've definitely been around checking stuff out a little. It's mostly served to confirm that TG in the eternal starhost + astrolith are an amazing choice for that die-hard core I like to play with (probably a side effect of frequenting the Emperor's finest :p )

Now what I don't exactly understand yet is why i shouldnt mix attack and defence a little, even in a medium-sized force. I mean, isnt the ability to counter-attack a key element of any defensive army? what's more, the TG-kroak-astro core may be very sturdy but on the other hand it's just as slow and its very compact. So doesnt that make me somewhat vulnerable during the shooting phase ? that's why I was wondering whether rippers (or even chamo skinks) might come in handy. Actually why not field a shadowstrike starhost in addition to my eternal starhost (with 2 chamo units in order to keep a reasonable wound count)?

I also have another question for you guys: does the oldblood on carno belong in my defensive force, then? i guess if they're my only offensive unit, they wont be able to do much by charging forwards on their own and getting flooded. So that would mean i'd use them as flank protectors, which may be a little underwhelming considering the amount of damage they can do in an offensive context…
 
Toltecatl said:
Now what I don't exactly understand yet is why i shouldnt mix attack and defence a little, even in a medium-sized force. I mean, isnt the ability to counter-attack a key element of any defensive army? what's more, the TG-kroak-astro core may be very sturdy but on the other hand it's just as slow and its very compact. So doesnt that make me somewhat vulnerable during the shooting phase ? that's why I was wondering whether rippers (or even chamo skinks) might come in handy. Actually why not field a shadowstrike starhost in addition to my eternal starhost (with 2 chamo units in order to keep a reasonable wound count)?
Click to expand...

A legit question.
There's not a precise answer, neither a static formula.
The basic principle, is that if you divide your forces (points, wounds, and similar) between two different combat styles, usually you'll end with 2 weak things, that can be easily wiped away by a more organized enemy. this is easier in mid-low games, where you can often be on a budget.
A defensive army must threaten the enemy, if wants to force it to attack. That's why Kroak's comet is so precious. And yes, chama skinks and rippers (or directly a Shadowstrike Starhost), fit in a defensive army: their role is to assassinate dangerous units, so they work both with defensive and with offensive armies... what will change, will be the targets themselves.
Recently, I fought an empire gunline with an eternal starhost, and it wasn't an easy walk, when you must deal with 4 cannons (2 cannons and 2 Steamtanks, to be precise). Kroak alone isn't enough, so, ambushing units can be a great help.
And for shooting... yes, Guards don't shoot, but there's no reason why you shouldn't support them with some of our shooters (Bastiladon, for example, which is a really wonderful defensive unit, that can be employed also against dangerous monsters).

Eternal Starhost + Shadowstrike starhost, remains a defensive army. it's when you try to mix Kroak with Saurus warriors, or Saurus Knights and Skinks, that things don't work so well.
 
Toltecatl said:
I also have another question for you guys: does the oldblood on carno belong in my defensive force, then? i guess if they're my only offensive unit, they wont be able to do much by charging forwards on their own and getting flooded. So that would mean i'd use them as flank protectors, which may be a little underwhelming considering the amount of damage they can do in an offensive context…
Click to expand...

Big question: what sort of General will you be fielding? If you're fielding Kroak, go with Kroak: use his Insights to reroll the dice that determine the order of battle. You can order your opponent to reroll their dice if, say, they get two turns in a row. If they still beat you and you have more than one insight, you can then reroll your own.

Weighing in on your own question, you may be better off with Kroxigor (rather than a Carnosaur) if you're focusing solely on defense. They do wonders in the flank: they get all of their attacks, and few models can attack them back. Point them right at the corner (or most corner-like) part of a unit, and they'll do some severe damage without taking a whole lot back. If you already have the Carn and don't feel like buying Krox, the Carn should do alright.

Buffering your main force with Skink screens is also helpful: they'll upset the turn order when combat comes by taking advantage of their 'Wary Fighters' ability, and they also have some synergy with Krox. Pull them out of combat at advantageous times (for example, if your opponent overstretched themselves during a charge and failed to maximize the amount of models getting into combat - forcing the enemy to pile in first in this situation will help you out).

If you prefer a single model, a Stegadon with Sunfire Throwers is nice (also synergizing with Skinks; that D6" of movement in the hero phase can be extremely helpful).

I prefer aggressive play, so maybe everything that I say is hogwash! :D:D
 
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Toltecatl said:
Thanks a lot guys, useful advice as usual :) so i'm def going for Kroak, astrolith and additional TG for starters.I also have another question for you guys: does the oldblood on carno belong in my defensive force, then? i guess if they're my only offensive unit, they wont be able to do much by charging forwards on their own and getting flooded. So that would mean i'd use them as flank protectors, which may be a little underwhelming considering the amount of damage they can do in an offensive context…
Click to expand...
Oh absolutely. The Oldblood Carnosaur is an amazing Monster Hunter and is ideal for countering any nasty monster that your opponent may throw your way in an attempt to break your defensive line. Plus Bloodroar is amazing against high wound enemies because even if it's impossible for your enemy to fail Battleshock, you can still make up to three of them flee. Brutal against things like Ogres. I take a Carno for my Guard army.
 
okayyy so loads of interesting options here. Thanks a lot, all :D

I love the bastiladon and carno models and i've got the carno so i guess i'll be using them. Bastiladon + kroak should work fine to boost my range damage… I guess the first step will be getting kroak and a warden, adding some guards and the bastiladon. Then I really think adding a shadowstrike starhost could be a good idea, partly because it should make me polyvalent and partly because i'm curious to play with skinks as well. Then i'll give a thought to kroxis, razors etc, as i get some playing experience going.

One more question for now, though: as far as the shadowstrike is concerned, would you recommend
- the starpriest or the priest (i'd tend to go with a priest, with celestial rites),
- and 2x chamos or 1 chamos, 1 skink?
I love the idea of using chamos (a great fan of scout snipers in 40k lol…) but maybe i should still get a regular skink unit too to get more hit rolls, and possibly keep dangerous opponents away from the main box if i need to by using wary fighters.

As for the flyers it seems to me, from the discussion on this thread, that terradons would fit my force better. agree?
 
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Toltecatl said:
okayyy so loads of interesting options here. Thanks a lot, all :D

I love the bastiladon and carno models and i've got the carno so i guess i'll be using them. Bastiladon + kroak should work fine to boost my range damage… I guess the first step will be getting kroak and a warden, adding some guards and the bastiladon. Then I really think adding a shadowstrike starhost could be a good idea, partly because it should make me polyvalent and partly because i'm curious to play with skinks as well. Then i'll give a thought to kroxis, razors etc, as i get some playing experience going.

One more question for now, though: as far as the shadowstrike is concerned, would you recommend
- the starpriest or the priest (i'd tend to go with a priest, with celestial rites),
- and 2x chamos or 1 chamos, 1 skink?
I love the idea of using chamos (a great fan of scout snipers in 40k lol…) but maybe i should still get a regular skink unit too to get more hit rolls, and possibly keep dangerous opponents away from the main box if i need to by using wary fighters.

As for the flyers it seems to me, from the discussion on this thread, that terradons would fit my force better. agree?
Click to expand...

Definitely take a Starseer. Always take a Starseer.

If you're going with Kroak/Warden/TG/Astrolith, then I recommend the Starpriest. Your save value will already be substantial (per rules, 1s don't auto-fail, but many seem to play it that they do), so that -1 to hit will mean fewer wound rolls... against particular enemies, that will mean fewer mortal wounds (which bypass the stellar save of our Guard). Then, of course, there's unbinding & Serpent's Staff. :D

Personally, I'd go two camos if playing defensively. Skinks shine when used to reverse combat order via Wary Fighter. Though you may need that, you'll likely need it less than outright damage from blowpipes.

I'd go with Terradons, yeh, but I usually take them over Rippers anyway. Rippers would probably be fine. The Skyblade is nice against flyers, and the mortal wounds from Drop Rocks are good too.
 
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Ixt said:
Though you may need that, you'll likely need it less than outright damage from blowpipes.
Click to expand...
right, cheers :D i was thinking 5-man units were not enough. Maybe if i get 3 sets of 5, one unit with 7 and one with 8 (or both with 7) could do pretty good damage while still being small enough to benefit from the 3+ cover save easily… what is your experience with that?

As for the rest i'll def go with starpriest for the shadowstrike host then. I just double checked their rules and their magic ability is def a good argument in their favour as opposed to regular priests ^^
 
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Guys, once again, thank you all so much for all the advice. i cant wait to "finish" this beginning of an army. I'm changing my modelling priority list to get them assembled and ready to fight asap, starting with some guards :D :D
 
Toltecatl said:
One more question for now, though: as far as the shadowstrike is concerned, would you recommend
- the starpriest or the priest (i'd tend to go with a priest, with celestial rites),
Click to expand...
Honestly the Starseer vs Starpriest depends on one major choice. Do you intend to tank hits, or not take hits at all? With a TG army with those high saves, the ability to reroll Saves is naturally more valuable than on say a Skink army running 6+ Saves who'd all rather just not take the hits in the first place.

Ixt certainly has it right with the Starseer, always have one. They're one of the best wizards in the game, and their spell is the most powerful spell in the game once you figure out how to use it right. Plus it doesn't need LoS to be used.
 
wait @Bainbow , are you talking about the starseer's ability or his spell? (both being pretty cool anyway… combined with kroak's insights, you can gain quite a lot of rerolls/dice modifiers)
well, the thing about the choice in the shadowstrike starhost is, unless i'm mistaken, the host includes either a priest or a starpriest, while it doesnt mention the starseer (cf attachment).
so the latter would be an addition, even though it'd clearly be a rad one. It's about priest vs starpriest (then the starseer would obviously be great)
 

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Toltecatl said:
wait @Bainbow , are you talking about the starseer's ability or his spell? (both being pretty cool anyway… combined with kroak's insights, you can gain quite a lot of rerolls/dice modifiers)
well, the thing about the choice in the shadowstrike starhost is, unless i'm mistaken, the host includes either a priest or a starpriest, while it doesnt mention the starseer (cf attachment).
so the latter would be an addition, even though it'd clearly be a rad one. It's about priest vs starpriest (then the starseer would obviously be great)
Click to expand...

Both are great.
 
Yup.. So I just happened to run into a cheap unpainted, unassembled starpriest today. And guess what.. Problem solved for now ^^
the model is absolutely gorgeous. So fine
 
@William Jackson yep, thats the plan now ^^ ^^ ^^ every now and then i have to resist the temptation to go get one immediately hehe. gotta assemble and paint the rest of my stuff first :p
 
Bainbow said:
I have never once resisted that temptation.
Click to expand...
Well i must say my wallet is a very precious ally in this.. I would understand it if you called it cheating :p
BTW I'm working on that warriors to tg conversion at last!! Getting the good stuff startedddd !!!!
 
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