AoS Flamethrowers on stegadons

[Canas]

What's your opinion on the flamethrowers? I mean, obviously they're anti-horde weapons, and against a unit of 40 they should do a decent chunk of damage. But at 3+/3+/-/1 they rather quickly lose power against smaller groups.

They don't have rend, they only do 1 damage, they're not that reliable. What do you think is the lowest unit size against which they still "work"?

 

[Aginor]

I did some statistical analysis on them a while back and I think the breakeven point against Ardboyz (4+ save) was actually pretty low, 12 models in range or so.
Against Skeletons or Bonesplitterz it was pretty good IIRC.

 

[Canas]

I did some statistical analysis on them a while back and I think the breakeven point against Ardboyz (4+ save) was actually pretty low, 12 models in range or so.
Against Skeletons or Bonesplitterz it was pretty good IIRC.

Meh, if a 4+ already requires 12 of em it's rather worse than I expected... would like for the thing to actually be useable on units of 5 as well... I don't get why the thing doesn't have rend or something. It's still a flamethrower, that it effective against groups makes sense, that it somehow becomes completly ineffective against small ones is weird...

 

[Aginor]

Yeah rend -1 and the Salamanders' ability to burn would be cool....

 

[Canas]

The salamanders burn-like ability would be perfect. Especially as it won't increase the damage against a horde much while being a good improvement against single models. Though I would change the condition for it slightly. 1 attack at 3+/3+/-/1 isn't going to cause many wounds against singlemodel units which frequently have better defenses. Change it to proc on say a succesfull wound rule and it'd be useable.

On a sidenote, what exactly is the point of the javalins thrown by the skinks on stegadons and bastiladons? 4 attacks at 5+/4+/-/1 isn't exactly going to get anywhere. Wouldn't it be more usefull to just have an extra horn attack or two?

 

[Aginor]

I think it just stems from a time when 4+ was considered a good save and we still had the Skink Chief to buff them.
Not too effective, that's right. But they aren't the main weapon anyway.

 

[Canas]

I think it just stems from a time when 4+ was considered a good save and we still had the Skink Chief to buff them.
Not too effective, that's right. But they aren't the main weapon anyway.

Meh,it's not so much "not the main weapon" as much as it's just something extra that's nearly useless. But since it's ranged and more than 1 attack you just know it'l add a decent chunk of points. It has the potential of another 4 wounds, which is significant. And at range, making a charging stegadon much more difficult to properly stop from reaching a wizard hiding in the back, which as said is definitly going to be costly. But with 5+/4+/- it's rarely actually going to amount to anything, and that's without taking into account the opponent has a save. It's kinda weird to have an attack on a big bad monster that is going to average somewhere around a single wound per game.

Anyways, slight detour, back to flamethrowers

Before AoS did those flamethrowers happen to be more effective in some way? if only cuz as far as I can tell the armies where generally bigger and 5-man units basicly didn't exist?

 

[Aginor]

Before AoS those weren't flame throwers I think, but giant blowpipes.

 

[Killer Angel]

What's your opinion on the flamethrowers?

I have never used them, and I don't plan to. Thus my position on the matter should be clear enough.

 

[Canas]

Before AoS those weren't flame throwers I think, but giant blowpipes.

Before AoS did those flamethrowers giant blowpipes happen to be more effective in some way? if only cuz as far as I can tell the armies where generally bigger and 5-man units basicly didn't exist?

Better?

 

[Aginor]

Before AoS did those flamethrowers giant blowpipes happen to be more effective in some way? if only cuz as far as I can tell the armies where generally bigger and 5-man units basicly didn't exist?

Better?

Yeah but actually I don't know the answer, since I started playing Warhammer just a bit more than a year ago.

I think they are pretty decent against hordes so I will use them for that.

 

[Canas]

Yeah but actually I don't know the answer, since I started playing Warhammer just a bit more than a year ago.

I think they are pretty decent against hordes so I will use them for that.

Meh, I had hoped for it to still be decent against smaller units/decimated hordes. But without rend, or some special effects, anything below 10 does seem to be a waste to target with it. Especially if it also has a vaguely decent save. Ah well...

 

[Killer Angel]

One of the problems is that the Stegadon is not designed to deal with hordes of small / normal sized models with average / low saves. Its primary targets are different, and so you would put on a Steggy a kind of shooting weapon that works against units you usually don't go against.

 

[Canas]

One of the problems is that the Stegadon is not designed to deal with hordes of small / normal sized models with average / low saves. Its primary targets are different, and so you would put on a Steggy a kind of shooting weapon that works against units you usually don't go against.

mwha, crushing stomps fit fairly well as an anti horde attack as well. High number of attacks, low damage and no rend. It has fairly similar stats to the sunfire throwers (in fact slightly worse hit). The only difference is that its based on d6's instead of enemy model count. So the flamethrowers don't feel that out of place imo.

 

[Killer Angel]

mwha, crushing stomps fit fairly well as an anti horde attack as well. High number of attacks, low damage and no rend. It has fairly similar stats to the sunfire throwers (in fact slightly worse hit). The only difference is that its based on d6's instead of enemy model count. So the flamethrowers don't feel that out of place imo.

You certainly have a point, however flamethrower is specifically designed against hordes, while crushing stomps work in the same way also against small units. I can charge 3 Khurnot Hunters and still I'll do 3d6 attacks.


Let's say that a horde-killer steggy with stomps, flames and horns could effectively wreck particular targets (say a horde of 40 dwarfs warriors defending an objective), but I would never insert it in an all-comers list.