7th Ed. First Time Lizards, Hopefully Competitive! 2000

[Pure Blad]

Hi,
After 10 long years with the Tomb Kings and Bretonnians, I have decided to dabble in abit of reptilian carnage! As you can probably guess TK and Brets play very differently to LM, so I am hoping to get as much help as possible, hopefully from the Lustria community.

So, my proposed list;

Slaan
(BSB, 3 Disciplines (Extra PD, MR3, Terror.) Cupped Hands.)

Skink Priest
(EOTG, Lv 2, Scroll.)

20 Temple Gaurd
(Full Command.) Slaan in here.

10 Skink Skirmishers

10 Skinks Skirmishers

16 Skinks
(2 Krox, Full Command.)

16 Skinks
(2 Krox, Full Command.)

6 Saurus Cavlery
(Full Command.)

I would like to add some Terradons and Salamanders in favour of the Cavlery, but due to model availibilty, I am unable to do so at this point in time.

The basic plan is to hit them realitvly hard and quickly whilst backed up by vast amounts of magic, and some shooting. I have decided on such a large TG unit so as I am not too reluctant to send them into CC, and also of course for extra protection. Seeing as I play in quite a friendly enviroment, I think the Skrox might go quite unoticed for the game thus being able to hit amazingly hard. The cavlery, whilst expensive, hit incredibly hard, being able to mow down anything in the path.

These are my opinions though, and I am really looking forward to hearing yours!

 

[Sebulba]

First off, two of the three disciplines are kind of uneccesary... I mean, maybe you play in a heavy magic environment with lots of low LD troops but typically the most bang for your buck comes from the extra PD discipline, the one that lets you know all the spells in a lore and the one that makes an enemy wizard within 24 inches discard 6s.

If you like the set up, it's all preferences. It's just that you will RULE the magic phase with those three.

Perhaps lower the TG to 16? The Slann has a base size which fits 4 regular stands so 16+Slann = a full 20. Unless you're trying to run a 6x4?

If you have the models already, then the skrox are fine. I really like skrox myself but I find that the 110 -124 point build of 11 skinks and 1 krox is probably the most efficient (cost depending on command). Let me know how the 16 and 2 works. I love the models but I just think a unit of 15 saurus would do a lot more for you as far as anchoring goes. Maybe if you ever go up to 2250 or if you feel like dropping something, try to make that 6th cold one a scar vet with the burning blade of chotec and an enchanted shield with light armor. He's pretty brutal and he does well against big, regenerating monsters (Hellpit Abominations and Hydras come to mind...).

Let me know how the battle goes. It would be awesome to see the report!

 

[Washout]

the skink/krox units don't work, it looks nice on paper, but they fail terribly, you are just giving your opponent too much combat res with those squishy skinks. I find kroxigors over priced, but if you wanna use em, just keep em separate, but honestly the points are better spend on Cold One Riders.

 

[Sebulba]

Well... it depends on how you use them. You NEED to hit flanks with these guys. Or, if there are 10 archers or something these guys beat them every time. Think about it, assuming no losses to shooting and the build he currently has, you have 3 ranks, 1 banner, perhaps outnumber, flank and the 'virtual' combat res of denying their ranks. That's not even with the casualties that will come from the Kroxigors. Now, if you hit the flank they MAYBE have 4 guys to strike back with (skaven might have more... and spears technically can fight it two ranks I guess). Can they really kill 6 to even it out? You kind of need saurus to make this tactic work (which is why I prefer 11 and 1) as they can hold a unit down while you get around the side with the skrox.

As long as you understand that the skrox won't take out a big block of troops by themselves, maybe a basic soldier regiment or small elite unt, you'll be fine.

They get poison shots (16 against large targets!) with an 18inch effective ranch. They cause fear, they're M6, they're aquatic, they're... awesome haha.

And you have to admit... cold ones have their flaws too. Stupidity (will get you that crucial turn every time... haha) and no static combat res. 6 wounds and those guys are toast. 6 wounds on the skrox and you're out 30 points (maybe more if they happen to kill a kroxigor somehow). The 6 str 4 attacks followed by 12 str 5 attacks on a charge make a huge difference though when you do get them there.


I am concerned that you're using big blocks of support troops as your core fighters but just understand that they don't do that and you'll be fine. Use your skinks to 'kite' them by redirecting charges so these guys get flanks.

6 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 4 troops on the flank? Win (5x4 enemy)

6 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 2 warriors of chaos on the flank? Win (6x2 enemy)

 

[spacelizard]

Now, if you hit the flank they MAYBE have 4 guys to strike back with (skaven might have more... and spears technically can fight it two ranks I guess).

You only get the advantage of spears against enemies to your front, just one more reason to charge spear units in the flank or rear. Also...

16 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 4 troops on the flank? Win (5x4 enemy)

16 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 2 warriors of chaos on the flank? Win (6x2 enemy)

corrected

As for myself, terror on your slann is really kind of pointless since most people know temple guard are a huge tarpit and therefore avoid them anyway. I have to agree with Sebulba on the discarding 6's discipline. MR is 1) only going to help the slann and guard, and 2) just going to make the rest of your army more appetizing for enemy casters. Make no mistake, what you have is a finesse list; steamroller tactics will leave your slann and guard wondering where the rest of the army went. I think the list is reasonable, but it'll take a deft touch to work.

 

[Okopipi]

Also...

16 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 4 troops on the flank? Win (5x4 enemy)

16 skinks and 2 kroxigors against 2 warriors of chaos on the flank? Win (6x2 enemy)

corrected

Maybe he meant who gets to fight...

 

[spacelizard]

Maybe he meant who gets to fight...

hmm.... you're probably right.

 

[Bibamus]

And you have to admit... cold ones have their flaws too. Stupidity (will get you that crucial turn every time... haha) and no static combat res. 6 wounds and those guys are toast.

6 wounds on a skrox unit gets the enemy 6 CR, 6 wounds on COCs have to get through a 2+ armor save before giving away any CR and you losing any points. if something can wipe your COC's that easy then skrox units have no chance of survival except maybe in the flank or rear.

 

[Sebulba]

Yeah, I'm mostly talking from shooting. Urannon's Thunderbolt does wounds no matter what your armor is and cannons mostly ignore armor too.

If someone is shooting your cheapest unit (124 pts) with enough things to cause 6 wounds you're bigger, better units are probably going to be okay.

That's why the flank is crucial. Never charge skrox into the front unless you know that you can win (6x2 bowmen, a group of skirmishers, etc). These guys are a great SUPPORT unit.

How many units could really do 6 wounds to the guys on their flank? Censor bearers (DON"T charge these guys, T tests kill you big time) or perhaps a huge group of chaos warriors or something.

Like I mentioned before, I don't think they are very reliable main block units. Saurus are definitely better. If you don't already have all the models I say get another of saurus and maybe 1 block of 11 skinks and 1 kroxigor. Up to you though.

Or, have 4 kroxigors and then use the rest as skirmishers or something
Your list would really benefit from another block of saurus though.

 

[Pure Blad]

Wow! Thanks for all the quick and useful feedback!

Taking some of that feedback into consideration I came up with this list;

Slaan (2 Disciplines (Discard 6's, Extra PD.) Cupped Hands.)

Skink Priest (EOTG, Scroll, Level 2.)

Skink Priest (Cloack of Feathers.)

10 Skirmish Skinks

10 Skirmish Skinks

10 Skirmish Skinks

10 Temple Gaurd (Full Command.) Slaan in here.

18 Saurus (Spears, Full Command.)

2 Salamanders

3 Kroxigor

6 Cold One Riders (Full Command.)

What do you think?

 

[Phoenix49]

Hey mate, I'm a novice with Lizardmen as well, and from the few games and bit of trolling I've done on this forum, I have to agree with the majority: use points that you spend on unit champions for more useful upgrades. Playing Dark Elves, I put a champion everywhere without a second thought, but here, you can actually get some points back without losing too much "firepower".

For example, I would make your second skink a Level 2 wizard. That extra power dice will allow him to cast one of his two spells without having to take any dice from the army pool, which you should keep for the Slaan.

To get those points, lose the Saurus champion, the TG champion and musician. These guys won't flee, and in the case of a draw where a musician would be useful you'll just have to test with 3d6 on a LD9. No biggie.

Also, one alternative I would consider once you get some experience is to replace the Kroxigors with a 2nd unit of 15 Spearmen. Take out a Skink unit and the Krox, and u got urself 235pts you can spend in any way u want. I would suggest a unit of 15 Spearmen, and if any points are left over u can add more skinks to the other 2 units u already have.

Finally, just as a notice, if you add _one_ more TG, you'll get 11+4(Slaan) "rank & file" models in ur unit, getting a 2nd rank bonus as well (5x3)

Krox arent excellent when u dont have enough core blocks to support them, and they only have T4, which is just the same as normal Saurus warriors. And think about it: Ld7 vs Ld8, 9A vs (potentially) 20A (and with WS3, u want more attacks), 4 static CR and a chance to actually outnumber something.

That's my first impressions, good luck and welcome

 

[Bibamus]

the TG champion is actually usefull, much like the DE champion he is there to get some attacks back. he has teh added advantage of being able to take some magic items and i've toyed with the ideea to give him ASF. thats 3 WS 4 S4 attacks before the oponenet gets to attack, it wont take the full front rank of any unit, not even infantry, but as long as they don't have a 3+ or better armor save it could reduce the casualties on your unit to allow you to win combat and not rely on stubberon Ld 9.
i do agree tough, teh musician can be dropped. if they flee they are dead anyway and as long as they are stubborn they either draw (both have musicians) or lose by 1 (only the opponenet has musician) and you test at 9 cold blooded, not to mention that if you get some random 25 points you can make teh slann a BSB to have stubborn ld 9 with a reroll aswell as giving the same reroll to any unit in 12". with those odds you actualyl have a chance of rolling snake eyes when losing combat too hard/ to fear causing enemies with outnumber you

 

[Phoenix49]

the ASF sword can be a good alternative, my favourite option if you're giving anything would be the Venom of the Firefly Frog. 3A, Magical + Poison, S5, and you save another 15pts for whatever other reason you might need. The discussion about whether you should buy champions or another ran&file will probably go on forever, it really comes down to everyone's playstyle/preferences.