8th Ed. First stab at 2500 in new book

[GCPD]

Well, with the new book out I've been toying with what I want to do, and figured that the best place to start would be modifying my existing list with some of the new toys. I very much enjoy a combined arms, flexible approach that also has some real threat and power projection, so that's what I've tried to go for.

Slann Mage Priest
Battle Standard Bearer
Harmonic Convergence
Focus of Mystery
Soul of Stone
Channeling Staff

Skink Priest
Dispel Scroll

Scar-Veteran
Cold One
Dawn Stone
Dragonhelm
Great Weapon
Light Armour

36 Saurus Warriors with Spears
Full Command

10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers

12 Skink Cohort

24 Temple Guard
Full Command

Bastiladon
Solar Engine

Bastiladon
Solar Engine

5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks

4 Ripperdactyl Riders

Ancient Stegadon
Sharpened Horns

Total: 2497

You're probably wondering what the hell I'm doing. No Salamanders and 4 Ripperdactyls? Well, I'm determined to make these work. They appear to be so rubbish that finding a viable use for them has become a challenge to me. I indend to hold them back till turns 4-6 before pouncing on their Bloat Toads or unengaged flanks. As bad as they are, ultimately they are S4 Flyers with Armour Peircing, Killing Blow and a truckload of attacks: they are in the list to add some power projection to what is otherwise fairly slow moving. I do really miss my Terradons, though, so I've added a second unit of Chameleons to replace them.

Whilst I don't think Salamanders have been nerfed - in fact, their S4 is better for how I use them than S3 with -3AS - I just couldn't find the points to put them in. In a way, the Solar Engines can fulfil a similar role in thinning out infantry blocks; with probably the same odds as well. But they'll also be pretty handy for taking down things like Chimeras and Hydra as well, and they should lend some support to the infantry blocks in a fight (probably not as much as two Scar-Vets for the same points, though, but they are definitely more multi-purpose than our humble Saurus hero). I've got two for redundancy - if I fail to cast one or roll badly for damage, or miss with one S10 hit, the other should be able to pick up the slack. The idea is to chuck a dice at each bound spell per phase; either at the start if I want to draw out dispel dice or the end once all have been used if I'm looking for some damage. They'll also help with protecting against Purple Sun and things.

The Slann's on High Magic and as a power dice factory he should be able to help me in both casting and dispelling. He can hop between the Saurus, Temple Guard or Skink Cohort depending on the match up, and the two infantry blocks have the numbers to go for ranks, 6 wide or horde. I'm not sure if the Cohort would be better at 10 models with a musician, though - what are people's thoughts?

Edit: Realised that the Scar-Vet doesn't need a shield, so this left enough points for Soul of Stone on the Slann. Sadly this leaves me 3 points under 2500 and there's nothing in the list to spend it on.

 

[Shadoer]

Ok here are my thoughts


1. Drop at least one Bastadon. I'm not a fan of these to begin with and really two is overkill. Remember their +1 initiative doesn't stack.

2. Use the points from the Bastadon to upgrade your Ancient Stegaddon to have Engine of the Gods.

3. You should still have enough points to give your Temple Guard the important Razor Banner.

4. Drop the Dawnstone and the Dragon Helm from your Saurus on the Cold One. Go with the Stegaddon Helm instead. It gives you +1 Armor, +1 Toughness, and D3 impact hits. This will help your guy a lot more then the Dawn Stone.

5. Soul of Stone on your Slann really isn't that good. It's not going to save your temple guard. You are better off taking something like Eldritch Energy to give you more casting dice and trying to spam spells on 2D6 to get through your opponents dispel dice then taking Soul of Stone (at least in my opinion, it's disputed)

6. Throw the following onto your Slann to tool him up a bit. Standard of Discipline and Iron Curse if you plan to run him in the Temple Guard.

Hope that helps

 

[Asamu]

Ok here are my thoughts


1. Drop at least one Bastadon. I'm not a fan of these to begin with and really two is overkill. Remember their +1 initiative doesn't stack.

2. Use the points from the Bastadon to upgrade your Ancient Stegaddon to have Engine of the Gods.

3. You should still have enough points to give your Temple Guard the important Razor Banner.

4. Drop the Dawnstone and the Dragon Helm from your Saurus on the Cold One. Go with the Stegaddon Helm instead. It gives you +1 Armor, +1 Toughness, and D3 impact hits. This will help your guy a lot more then the Dawn Stone.

5. Soul of Stone on your Slann really isn't that good. It's not going to save your temple guard. You are better off taking something like Eldritch Energy to give you more casting dice and trying to spam spells on 2D6 to get through your opponents dispel dice then taking Soul of Stone (at least in my opinion, it's disputed)

6. Throw the following onto your Slann to tool him up a bit. Standard of Discipline and Iron Curse if you plan to run him in the Temple Guard.

Hope that helps

1. The boundspell is pretty good, for killing chaff, monsters, or whittling down larger units, and although the initiative not stacking makes that a bit worse, they can still be used to deny flank bonuses on the infantry blocks. With T5 and a 2+ armor, they aren't going to die very quickly to most units. Not saying I disagree with the idea of dropping 1 for something else, but it isn't a horrible unit or anything.

2. Engine of the gods isn't great. You are adding 50 points to something that is already going to draw all of the cannon fire. It gives a 6+ ward to nearby units, which nice, but really isn't a big deal, and -1 to the casting values of a lore is not significant enough to change how many dice you are rolling unless you like to play a risky magic phase and 2 dice 11+ spells. Burning alignment is only going to be good for killing chaff at d6 strength 4

3. Razor banner isn't that big of a deal unless you plan on having it fight units with 1+ armor saves. Otherwise MR, leadership (to save points on the slann), or movement for 15 points will be better.

4. Dawnstone and Dragon helm is better than the stegadon helm defensively, and it is less points. Also, he probably isn't going to be charging very often.

5. Soul of stone cuts the chance that he is sucked into the warp from 8.33%- 4.17%, and the same goes for losing spells. Losing your slann half as much and getting to pick your miscast between one of 2 more often than not makes Soul of Stone almost required on a 450 point General/BSB/Lvl4.

6. I agree with the above.

 

[Divinor]

1)I am leaning towards trying double Blastadons... but in a non slann list. I think with the slann having access to so many spells and the cool high magic lore attribute, you just won't have the dice to use the ChotecDeathRay. I might consider swapping one to a snake launcher?

2) I think the 12 cohorts will do fine. Out of curiosity, what are you running your skirmishers with?

3) Ancient + Horns = Awesome! Can't wait to see that hit something!

4) I wan't to like the rippers. They are school of smash and I like me some smash. However, 2 wounds each at T3 and a 4+ armor save for 40 points sounds crazy. I'll be interested to see how people use them.

 

[eppe]

Ripper's are gonna be our suicide unit. I think the key is making sure they attack first and buffing them to the teeth the ONE turn they fight... cause I don't see them living past the charge... or if they get charged.

 

[GCPD]

Yeah. Right now I have pretty much no hope in them to actually achieve anything. I just can't believe that they took a book with one of the fewest unit entries and added something that is so bad, so I'm determined to make them work. I also don't want to run exactly the same list that I had before because that's dull. So out go the Terradons and in come the Rippers, at least for a while.

Ok here are my thoughts


1. Drop at least one Bastadon. I'm not a fan of these to begin with and really two is overkill. Remember their +1 initiative doesn't stack.

2. Use the points from the Bastadon to upgrade your Ancient Stegaddon to have Engine of the Gods.

3. You should still have enough points to give your Temple Guard the important Razor Banner.

4. Drop the Dawnstone and the Dragon Helm from your Saurus on the Cold One. Go with the Stegaddon Helm instead. It gives you +1 Armor, +1 Toughness, and D3 impact hits. This will help your guy a lot more then the Dawn Stone.

5. Soul of Stone on your Slann really isn't that good. It's not going to save your temple guard. You are better off taking something like Eldritch Energy to give you more casting dice and trying to spam spells on 2D6 to get through your opponents dispel dice then taking Soul of Stone (at least in my opinion, it's disputed)

6. Throw the following onto your Slann to tool him up a bit. Standard of Discipline and Iron Curse if you plan to run him in the Temple Guard.

Hope that helps

1. Yeah, 2 Bastiladons are a bit overkill. That's kind of the point though, as I feel that one just has too many chances of underperforming. You have to cast the spell, then roll well on the damage, then actually roll the wounds...

2. I agree with Asamu that the Engine of the Gods just isn't worth the points. Or the paper its written on. Especially as I'm running High Magic, which it doesn't work with, I'm not bringing it to cast Wildform on a 9 instead of a 10. And the bound spell is, amazingly, even worse than the Solar Engine. I'd rather keep it relatively cheap as a counter to monstrous cavalry.

3. I used to run the Razor Banner on my Temple Guard all the time. And whilst you punch through Chaos armour like paper, I've been running the numbers and there's not much difference. At stuff better than 3+ the Razor Standard is much more worthwhile, but I'm not convinced its needed to make them work given the cost.

4. I may switch to the Stegadon Helm at some point, but for the things I need my Scar-Vet to do the Dawn Stone is better. What things, you ask? Tanking Daemon Princes.

5. I'm not so bothered about Temple Guard dying as I am losing wizard levels or getting sucked into a hole. It just feels that at 400 points I should really do something to mitigate the chance of that investment being lost.

6. Standard and Ironcurse Icon are both good calls. The problem is that taking them means cutting the Temple Guard back even further. They are already at the minimum that I want to use; 23 is really pushing it.

1)I am leaning towards trying double Blastadons... but in a non slann list. I think with the slann having access to so many spells and the cool high magic lore attribute, you just won't have the dice to use the ChotecDeathRay. I might consider swapping one to a snake launcher?

2) I think the 12 cohorts will do fine. Out of curiosity, what are you running your skirmishers with?

3) Ancient + Horns = Awesome! Can't wait to see that hit something!

4) I wan't to like the rippers. They are school of smash and I like me some smash. However, 2 wounds each at T3 and a 4+ armor save for 40 points sounds crazy. I'll be interested to see how people use them.

1. Well, although the Slann has access to a lot of Spells, I don't see him casting all of them all the time. You've got a couple for early game use, a couple mid game, and only one combat buff. What he really lacks, without swapping, is some ranged punch, which the Solar Engines provide. And with generating lots of dice I should be able to chuck 2 at a couple of bound spells relatively easily. I also really do not rate the snake launcher (2d6 s2 at full armour saves in d6"? Come on!) or Swarms (despite their poison buff - if they had been in Core then they might have been worthwhile, but not competing for Special points).

2. Yeah, I think they have utility to be bunkers, chaff, Watchtower-bait, etc. They also bring me to exactly 1 point over minimum Core My skirmishers have blowpipes at the moment, simply because I've found them to be so effective. There's a chance I might switch to javelins and shields, though, once I've played High Elves a few times...

3. Yup! Bring on the monstrous cavalry

4. As I said above, they are just crazy bad. But I'll see what they can achieve.

Thanks for the comments all!

 

[GCPD]

A second stab, which mixes things up a bit more. The core of the list is essentially the same; however, all the dinosaurs have come out, and the Terradons and a Salamander are back in.

Its perhaps simpler to use than the other list. Chaff up the enemy, smack them with the two big blocks, then flank with the Scar-Vets in Cold-One-Delivery-Systems. There's Champions in there to accept bad challenges, and no Standards so I can throw them up flanks without having to worry about extra VPs.

This list is heavily reliant on the Scar-Vets to do all the heavy lifting, however.

One Skink Priest on Heavens and the other Beasts.

Slann Mage Priest
Battle Standard Bearer
Harmonic Convergence
Focus of Mystery
Soul of Stone
Channeling Staff

Skink Priest
Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest
Cube of Darkness

Scar-Veteran
Cold One
Dawn Stone
Dragonhelm
Great Weapon
Light Armour

Scar-Veteran[/n]
Cold One
Stegadon Helm
Biting Blade
Shield

36 Saurus Warriors with Spears
Full Command

10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers

12 Skink Cohort

24 Temple Guard
Full Command

5 Cold One Cavalry
Champion

5 Cold One Cavalry
Champion

6 Chameleon Skinks

3 Terradons

Salamander


Total: 2499


Thoughts?