8th Ed. Finished 1st GT: lessons learned about this army

[Stuntyogre]

I just got back from my 1st GT in which I ran Lizardmen, 4 games of doubles and 4 singles. My doubles list is in the army list section probably on page two or three now, essentially it was a lot of skirmishers and ripperdactyls. 12 Ripperdactyls to be precise. Singles was 2k points no End Times percentages but otherwise uncomped. I ran Kroak, 60 Skirmishers 12 strong Cohort w Krox and 6 Rippers in 2 units of 3. For doubles our team went W-W-L-D. For singles I played all Tzeentch WoC (gorgeous looking army, fluffy and fun) 24-1 for me, DoC with lots of big things (heavily converted and well done too) 17-4 for him, Dark Elf avoidance which went 14-12 for me (win) and DoC again for game four heavy on the Tzeentch as well 13-12 (draw in his favour by 109 pts I think it was.)

So after all that here are the 3 things I learned about this army I didn't fully grasp before hand largely due to a paucity of playtesting.

1. Ripperdactyls are support pieces and not combat blocks. I have never had to play against them as no Lizzie player around runs them. This was very apparent when I compared their performance in the doubles games with them as the only combat focused units in my half of the list to the singles where I had 30 TG to take most stuff on the nose. When they can go and draw fire away, kill chaff and war machines and hopefully get into their marked unit then they excel and if I did it again I would still have at least one unit of them for sure. I own 12 and will certainly use all of them again, but not in the way I did for doubles

2. Kroak needs enough dice to be able to get three bubbles off. This was apparent throughout the day as my magic phases were seldom more than 6 dice at a time. If he doesn't get 7 or more dice he can only reliably be counted on to get one pulse off. Its not one pulse that wins the game, its the phases I could get two or three off that really hurt. My next quest for Kroak is getting him higher PD more often

3. Small Skrox = wonderful multi tool, these guys were never bored, they could shoot, fight off small units reasonably decently and twice came in on the flank of whatever soul was fighting my TG and ended that in a hurry. Probably taking one in every list from now on

Now that I've learned some lessons I have questions for the next GT I attend (I may go with Dwarfs but answers would be appreciated regardless)

1. Chimeras... How best to deal with them? Assume they have regen because they may as well come with it. Skinks may get a wound or two in every shooting phase, but there aren't that many phases and there are usually equal to or as many Chimeras as there are phases to shoot them down. My plan would be to add a Bastiladon for that, and other MM fun. I doubt Stegs would be able to set up the charge unless you are really clever, so that's a nonstarter

2. Is there a point to taking Terradons and Skirmishers? They do the same things but I just look at the fragility of them even to Rippers and how easily I've dispatched Terradons with my Dwarfs and I just don't like it that much. Ay thoughts?

3. What's the viability of doing a Tetto and Kroak combo? Tetto can shove Kroak up if he wants and can let Kroak re-roll his ones too, provides a channel and a vassal, and gives the army even greater flexibility for magic. Only problem is I'd want to be putting all my dice into Kroak so Tetto becomes a really expensive vassal after T1 that happens to passively buff Kroak.

 

[NexS1]

Firstly, congrats on the outcome!

I've never used rippers and i think i'll still choose terra's over them purely because I am better at the redirection game than I am at any other style.

I find it interesting that you've had a good success with the small skrox unit. I have found (so far) that with only 1 krox, he tends to catch the brunt of shooting and attacking, and quickly becomes a dead krox. What are your thoughts on the ideal unit size?

 

[LawGnome]

I always like seeing Kroak. He's a one trick pony, but it's a good trick.

The best way for getting him more PD is to give a priest the forbidden rod. That gives you three or so dice on average for one turn in return for a skink priest. Obviously, give it to a naked level 1 priest, but it can make all the difference on a crucial turn.

Regarding kroak and tetto: not worth it. That is almost 600 points for special characters that don't really interact very well. Kroak wants to use all of the power dice, and tetto is really expensive just for the rerolling of 1s.

I would instead take 2 or 3 priests. A level 1 with the forbidden rod, a level 2 with the dispel scroll, and then either a level 1 with the cloak of feathers or a troglodon. Kroak will stick around for quite a while (especially if you put him in a TG unit), so you don't really need much in the way of other magic. I would probably take beasts on all of my skinks. Kroak covers ranged magic, so just focus on buffing with the skinks.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

1. Chimeras... How best to deal with them? Assume they have regen because they may as well come with it. Skinks may get a wound or two in every shooting phase, but there aren't that many phases and there are usually equal to or as many Chimeras as there are phases to shoot them down. My plan would be to add a Bastiladon for that, and other MM fun. I doubt Stegs would be able to set up the charge unless you are really clever, so that's a nonstarter

You are on the right track. Magic is probably the best way to deal with them -- Bastiladon or Lore of Light for Flaming MM in particular. Even if you don't kill with the MM, you may hurt it enough for Skinks to finish them.

2. Is there a point to taking Terradons and Skirmishers? They do the same things but I just look at the fragility of them even to Rippers and how easily I've dispatched Terradons with my Dwarfs and I just don't like it that much. Ay thoughts?

Terradons don't always work, but they are great for several purposes. First, dropping rocks means they can neutralize enemy chaff units without even having to engage them in combat. Second, since they aren't frenzied, they are more reliable as war-machine hunters than are Rippers since they are less likely to be pulled off course. Third, since they aren't frenzied, they are a good unit for bait-and-flee tactics. They count as fast cavalry, so if they flee as a charge reaction, they can move as normal when they rally instead of being stuck in place, meaning you flee with them, induce a failed charge, rally, and then fly back to do the same thing again.

Skirmishers are more expensive per model than cohorts have a big advantage over skink cohorts in maneuverability, including that they can march and shoot.

No comment on the special characters since we don't use them in my neck of the woods.

 

[Stuntyogre]

I think the Fast Cav rules for Terradons give them something unique that Skirmishers can't match and that is the double flee ability. My skirmishers could do it, and did do it many times, but after one turn of that they were left impotently behind my lines and now unless I had more units to throw in front I gave control of movement over to my opponent.

4th bonus lesson. This one is something I'd seen, read about, experienced in playtesting and experienced over the weekend, and that is that Blowpipes SUCK. Oh my Kroak do they ever fail at their job when used with Skirmishers. In playtesting I found getting them into a building could be useful because they wouldn't have to move and could double tap, but what I stupidly forgot about was the lack of buildings at tournaments so that was never an option. The worse armour save also hurt when bowfire and S4 stuff came my way. Or if they got in combat with something it was over before it began, useless S&S (or none) and crummy attacks (didn't expect much anyway) with no armour was easier to kill than Skaven Slaves. Blowpipe Skirmishers: RETIRED TO SHELF

Thought, an answer to my Chimera question could be in Terradons too, as they can take Fireleeches and help the skirmishers take wounds off with much better ease, the trick is hitting and wounding with only 3 S4 shots at T5

 

[SilverFaith]

Skirmishers are more expensive per model than cohorts have a big advantage over skink cohorts in maneuverability, including that they can march and shoot.

Remember the -1 penalty for shooting attacks. it makes them far more survivable than normal blocks at range, but worse in melee (because of no ranks)

But since you are unlikely to throw skinks directly into melee anyway, that shouldn't really be a problem.


I agree with the blowpipes being bad, though. On chameleons, the higher BS means more shots, and even with movement, long range and double tap, you still hit on 6s, which is enough to trigger the poison you are looking for. On skinks with their bad BS, you are far better off with javelins, at least in my opinion. More survivable, better mobility, and the ability to S&S at any range makes them superior in almost every situation, and since adaptability is key to warhammer fantasy, the raw firepower blowpipes put out just isn't enough to make up for all the weaknesses it has.