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7th Ed. Fighty or Magic Army with Lizardmen?

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gerishking

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I have over 2250 points with Lizardmen, but I only play 2250 or sometimes less to learn more about moving and flanking in the game. I do have a Slann and a Skink Priest so I can run a high magic list with some shooty and some close combat at the same time, however magic is not very reliable and I want to have a list where my army can be forgiving at times. I played magic lists about twice so far and both games I miscasted twice or more a game. I can't tell if I am just being unlucky or am I just using more dice to cast a spell than I usually should. I roll 4 dice to cast 10 + spells and 2 dice to cast 5 + this is including the free dice that Slann can get with that one discipline. Anyways, I saw a friend of mine using an all fighty list but it seemed kinda boring to watch because he never marched nor charged. He let his enemy (undead) creep torwards him. So I can't decide which to run, even tho I can run both but we all know that costs alot of money and I am low at the moment. I just need to know which would be better to start until I get enough money to get more figures to run different lists. Oh and by the way, I bought my first Ancient Steggy with the Ancient of the Gods, so I am ready to use this beast as well. Thanks for reading and tips would be great too.
 
I'll leave it to others to math-hammer the dice aspect of your magic phase, but my rule of thumb for power dice is if one dice is 4 and the rest are 3's and that'll get the spell off, that's how many dice I use to cast. That means 3-4 uses one dice, 5-7 uses two, 8-10 uses 3, and 11-13 uses four. So in my opinion 4 dice for a 10 casting value is more than you need. I don't know about lizards, but I've played a lot of games with skaven of grey seer on the bell versus a warlord, and it really is 50-50 as far as effectiveness goes. Either way, you'll need dispel ability. Personally, I've never felt comfortable NOT taking a lvl 4 caster at 2000+pts, though I've been considering it of late.
 
One of my favorite army builds for a 2250 game is my "Four horsemen of the Old One's list" A combat list with a Oldblood on carno BoR (Death) , chef on stego with doomspear (Famine), vet on coldone BBoC (War), priest on EoTG (Pestilence). It gave me 6 DD and a scroll. Combat filled list. 3 skinks skirm, krox, COC Terries Sallies. It was fast and deadly. Even if opponent killed one combat hero the rest of the army was built to sustain the loss without losing punch. But there is something to be said about a slann cast crazy list.

Your Freindly Thunder Lizard
 
Thanks. I will try it. Only problem is that people I play pretty much always dispell by out rolling me. Thats why I chose to use 4 dice instead of 3 to cast a 10+ spell. I guess that is why those magic spells are so devastating and costly because they are never used ALL the time in a game or in all the magic phases. I used it once a game and I bet that is about average.
 
What builds are you using on your Slann and Priests that you are getting out-magicked? Frankly, very few armies should be able to pull that off. Even if your opponent has two or three scrolls (at 2250 three is usually the high end) a Slann and Skink on EotG should be able to draw all of them out after the second magic phase. What are you casting? What Lores? Which spells? What order?

Things like this can help some of us more familiar with magic lists help you out.
 
Well a buddy of mine uses vamps and he has 5 vampires that give him a bunch of dispel dice. This is what I cast in order from my Slann against Vamps, or Undead armies....Lore of Light. First I start off with the Burning Gaze and I roll two of my dice which Slann uses 1 free dice and one of his own. This spell usually goes off and I am one less from the start. Next I cast Healing Energy only if one of my Scar Vets are wounded heavily. The last one I use is Cleansing Flare and I use 4 dice with that spell. So overall I have used 4 out of 4 of Slanns Power Dice. I have 2 from my army pool left but I dont know what other spells I can use. Perhaps Lore of Light isn't so great for Slann since there are only 2 spells that I would use rarely 3. I heard that Lore of Fire is great for all around Magic. I am just having a hard time finding the right one to use and I was told it takes awhile to get used to the whole magic phase in this game. According to the last spell in the Lore of Light, which is Cleansing Flare, I roll 4 dice and most of the time I miscast. I need to use Cupped Hands of the Old Ones from now on since I miscast so often. This game can be very confusing at times, but I love it. :)
 
I guess hes just a little cheater then. Thanks for that. Also I meant to say Engine of the Gods instead of Ancient of the Gods. I guess you can also just say "EotG" or something. Thank you though.
 
Stegadeth said:
In 2250 he can't have five vampires.
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indeed :P

even with 4 vampires, there's not going to be much else in his army if they're all tooled up for magic (typically the most expensive set up for vamps)


i know light looks attractive vs. undead&daemons due to 2 of the spells getting better against them, but you said it yourself - most of the time there's only maybe 2 spells you're going to want to cast each turn.

fire would be a good choice if he's using that stupid banner of regenerate. depends what else he has in his army (though if he's using 5 vampires, who knows what that could be....)
 
metal + bane head can be nice to take out a combat built vampire and his knights. it can usually kill everything thats coming for you before they reach you.
law of gold can take care of the regen banner permanently and grave guards usually have a 4+ save so thats S4 nor armor or regen wich can be nasty against grave guard...
fire is also nice if you can get wall of fire to make him either takes lots of hits on his big blocks or take a flank charge...
shadow has pit of shades wich can kill lots of troops with low I but vampires wont suffer that much alltough unseen lurker can make you overwhelm him wih movement

also, 4 dice has more chances to misscast than IF... i usually got for 3 dice for casting values <12 unless i really want the spell to go off. with a slann and 2 skinks you should be fine if 1 of the skinks gets commet since that has to be dispelled by vampires, especially early on when his blocks aren't big enough to take the hits without feeling it
 
Bibamus said:
also, 4 dice has more chances to misscast than IF.
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My brain is working slowly today. How is this possible?
 
1,1,6,6 is still a miscast :P its not a lot higher but the difference between miscast and IF increases he more dice you throw. miscast>IF
 
Bibamus said:
1,1,6,6 is still a miscast :P its not a lot higher but the difference between miscast and IF increases he more dice you throw. miscast>IF
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Ah, gotcha. Never considered it that way.
 
Thanks guys. So I was actually wrong, my friend was using 4 vampires in his army instead of 5. Anyways I will try the Lore of Fire and the Lore of Metal against vamps. I played Dark Elves today and I got destroyed because he had that ring thingy where if I am 12" away from him or a 12" bubble around his ring bearer its a miscast with double ANYTHING in the magic phase. My Slann actually ALMOST got killed, but I ended the game earlym because I had to go home for dinner, but that really surprised me because I thought I was going to overpower my opponent with my Slann and Skink Priest. He did only have one lvl 1 wizard, which is why I would overpower him int he magic phase. Man, oh man. I really need to read up on the other armies and what they can do. This game takes a LONG time to figure out. I am on my 3rd week of playing tis game and I need to know ALOT more about this game. By the way, does anyone know how to you wash paint on Lizardmen? I used Baal Red on my skinks,saurus warriors and temple gaurd, and it all turned out a PINK color. I used skull white for my primer. Please help me with this, thanks.
 
lore of metal is great against the ring of hotek. if its on a champion just cast rule of burning iron on him with 2 dice and hope for no doubles. if its on a hero go for law of gold and try to destryo it as soon as possible, otherwise your magic will be quite screwed. you can also try to avoid casting anything near/at it or cast spells that don't have a specific target... alltough those spells aren't that usefull
 
gerishking said:
By the way, does anyone know how to you wash paint on Lizardmen? I used Baal Red on my skinks,saurus warriors and temple gaurd, and it all turned out a PINK color. I used skull white for my primer. Please help me with this, thanks.
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I only recently started so I don't know the details, but this is pretty obvious: white + red = pink. What you wanna do is first paint your models in a red colour (with an actual paint and not a wash) and THEN wash it. If you use the 'see through' red on white, you're gonna get pink, and see through red on black would give you black (you don't really see the red then).

However, I was pretty dissapointed in using purple and green wash on purple and green paint, I could hardly see it. So I ended up using Badab Black. I could probably mix the colour ink with a bit of black to make it darker and actually visual. I don't know how red on red will turn out though :).
 
gerishking said:
Thanks guys. So I was actually wrong, my friend was using 4 vampires in his army instead of 5. Anyways I will try the Lore of Fire and the Lore of Metal against vamps.
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Although it's not a character, the Vargulf is also a vampire. If he fields that, then that may be where the 5 came from.

gerishking said:
I played Dark Elves today and I got destroyed because he had that ring thingy where if I am 12" away from him or a 12" bubble around his ring bearer its a miscast with double ANYTHING in the magic phase.
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Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying, but that sounds like a broken item to me. I'd be sure to read the rules for it for myself. Tzeench at least has to get a spell off first for something like that.

gerishking said:
By the way, does anyone know how to you wash paint on Lizardmen? I used Baal Red on my skinks,saurus warriors and temple gaurd, and it all turned out a PINK color. I used skull white for my primer. Please help me with this, thanks.
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As has been said, white + red = pink. Also, washes aren't opaque, some of the color underneath is still going to show through (hence the color mix). If you're trying to paint them a solid color, then paint it on them normally. That's your base coat. THEN you use washes.
 
the Ring of Hotek is a 25 pts item that makes any spell cast from within 12" of it or targeted anywhere within 12" of it miscast on any double, effectively cancelling any chances for IF and hightening the chances for miscast by a lot
 
ring of hotek and the talisman of loec (the one that gives you the reverse ward save) are both stupidly broken.

the only vaugue downside for the ring of hotek is that it affects your own wizards, so basically you cant have a wizard within 12" of it. not that it's usually a problem, but could potentially backfire later in the game.

as stated though, there are ways to remove it, so if you're worried about it, then do it!
 
its the pendant of keleth that gives the inverted ward save, the talisman of loec is a wood elf item if I'm not mistaken. also, that's not that broken on its own, it can be bypassed with low/no S attacks... when combined with regeneration and an occasional dragon it gets nasty.
and regarding the ring and your own wizards... you usually have 1 scroll caddy if you go with the ring, or 2+ lvl 2 wizards and no ring, but null talismans all over the army for MR
 
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