7th Ed. Fighting DE for first time back army and it has a Hydra

[ermac82]

Hey all again I got back into WHFB and play the fellow Lizardmen with everyone here and need some advice and possible tactics to take on DE army wed nite. I know the army has a Hydra and some Dark Riders plus One lord sorceress. So my question is with the following army do i run a slann or run my carn with oldblood and what should i use to take care of the Hydra's beefing stats/breath attack(for cheap points). I play using the following units for 2k point limit:

1 skink priest lvl 2 Eotg
2 units of 15 or 18 saurus with S&M (5x3 or 6x3)
5 cold one cav
10 skink skirmishers
3 terradons
3 razordons (or 2 units of single salamander or combo of razor/sallies)

Any reccomendations on how to tackle a Hydra and what i should use best against DE would be greatly appreciated. I know Lizardmen are very reziliant and effective against HE and Brits so far and this is a new army to face against so general tactics against the DE would help get me in the midset and ready for the battle. Thank You all for your time and experienced viewpoints. I really enjoy being apart of this forum and community of players! -ermac

 

[Bibamus]

the Blade of Realities will probably kill the hydra after it hits, it only has a Ld of 5 or 6. after that you pretty much have a useless weapon unless he has another hydra or a dragon....

i suggest a slann with the focus of mystery, focus of rumination and the becalming cogitation to shut his sorceress down. cupped hands of the odl ones is nice and maybe bane head. some dispell scrolls will probably help aswell.
regarding the hydra... just throw 20-30 skinks at it and it will die. it usually tkaes me 2-3 shooting phases to poison it to death with 10 skinks so more should do it faster even if he statistically ignores 75% of the wounds.

other than that its usual LM tactics, i suggest salamanders instead of razordons tough, even if DE don't have high armor saves its unlikely all his army will be within the 12" bubble of his general. you can throw 3 terradons to ry to kill the sorceress if you want, maybe a mounted skink chief but then you risk getting challenged.

 

[ermac82]

ok here is what i got for a list against the DE so far using the skinks to shoot at the hydra plus blast some magic at the hydra. I got the scar vet if need to go can finish off the hydra/sorceress...ur thoughts on the usefullness on scar vet. I would keep him in temple guard until closer than move and jag charm him out. I thought of doing that to avoid getting blasted by shooting and magic till in range to move.

slann - rod of storm, bane head, BSB, extra PD gift
Eotg lvl 2
scar vet GW LA Jag charm
2 units 15 saruas w/spears S M
2 units 10 skink skirmishers
unit of 11 temple guard S M
3 terradons
5 CoC
2 seperate salamanders

total 1999 points

i never used a slann yet and, it is actually arriving tommorrow, so i havent fell in love with dumping a bunch of points into a caster with 50 point per gift. Is it actaully worth the points to add two more gifts or is it wiser just to add another priest to get more PD and DD for 100 points? Thanks for the guidance and advice; more would be appreciated.

 

[ermac82]

My game against the DE is tonite so i will give the update of the game afterwards for everyone to read if there is any interest.

 

[ermac82]

well the big showed was a complete success do to my oppenents terrible dice rolling on panic checks. The big bad hydra only gobbled up one unit of skink skirmishers b4 the end of the game due to redirection from them. My first time using a slann with plaque of tepok and Bane Head with BSB and gift that give 1 extra PD per spell dominated the magic phase with the help of Eotg with lvl 2 priest with comet spell. From turn one to three literally half of his army ran off the table do to failed panic tests from losing 25percent of massive fire magic rained down on the hated dark elves. Bye turn 4 and 5 saurus and cav broke and had the rest of the army running back to nagggaroth. Thanks for the input and advice on the hydra!

 

[erians]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned one of the best hydra killers around: Scar-vet BSB on a CO with Enchanted Shiedand and Burning blade. The hydra only wounds him on 4s and he still got a 2+ save, so the hydra does 0.4 wounds the first turn when he has hate, 0.29 without hate (should take 3 rounds of combat to deal 1 wound). The Scar vet does 1.33 wounds back per round, winning every turn by around 1 CR which forces a ton of LD7 break tests and only flees 2D6 vs the scar vets 3D6, 4 combat rounds and the hydra is dead assuming it passes all break tests.

Skinks are good for putting a wound in it once in a while, but with braeth and terror you don't always want skinks standing too close to the hydra as it will force you to take several LD tests, and a unit of 12 skinks only does 1 wound per shooting phase you need to super zerg him with like 36 skinks to put any real preassure on it.

Spirit of the forge is oddly enought one of the best spells against the hydra, as its flaming and doesnt allow armor saves (should do just above 2 wounds per Forge), so its better than any spells from the fire lore. Pit of Shades is great as well but the shadow deck is pretty shoddy otherwise, at least compared to Fire and Metal, but if you ever face a double hydra combo Pit is your best option.

Good to hear your plan worked and that you won, but if he got panicked of the board then you were double lucky, partly because he has to fail tetsts at LD9 and partly because most competative dark elf lists has ITP on every fighting unit (Pearl of infinite Blackness, Black Guards, sea serpent standard), but if they were fleeing from taking so much damage then they probably would've been wiped out anyway.

 

[Bibamus]

i didn't metion the scar vet alltough i did run the numbers myself. the porblem is the hydra has Ld 8 or 9 from the handlers that can't be killed and has US 5 so it will outnumber the scar vet. if he only causes 1 wound it will allways be a draw, if he loses combat he is outnumbered by a fear causing enemy and needs snake eyes to stay there. also the hydra has 13 attacks, alltough 6 at S3, you can only pass so many 2+ saves.
i was discussing scar vet v. hydra with my DE opponent and while he admitted he fears that scar vet build and doesn't understand why i don't slam him in the hydra every game (he's allways on the table) i'm affraid of bad rolls. also skinks can be spread out a little to avoid the breath weapon. terror at Ld 6 sucks, but with the general in range its Ld 8 or 9 cold blooded wich they only have to pass once per game. also if the hydra focuses on skinks it means that one of the toughest monsters in the game is busy with a 70 pt unit... it sounds good to me

 

[erians]

i didn't metion the scar vet alltough i did run the numbers myself. the porblem is the hydra has Ld 8 or 9 from the handlers that can't be killed and has US 5 so it will outnumber the scar vet. if he only causes 1 wound it will allways be a draw, if he loses combat he is outnumbered by a fear causing enemy and needs snake eyes to stay there. also the hydra has 13 attacks, alltough 6 at S3, you can only pass so many 2+ saves.

Outnumbering and terror causing vs fear causing is a very valid point, but the hydra has 7 attacks. When you charge a Hydra the handlers are 100% ignored, so you can base up against the middle of the hydra base which allows 0 handlers into base contact.

 

[Bibamus]

i just ate a hydra todya with the scar vet for causing 6 wounds vs 0 back and it failed its Ld 8-1 break test and the scar vet cought it.
also, the handlers aren't quite ignored, they form a unit with the hydra and you have to engage as many models in base to base as possible so you actually engage all 3 since they have 20x20 bases while a scar vet has either 25x25 or 25x50

 

[erians]

i just ate a hydra todya with the scar vet for causing 6 wounds vs 0 back and it failed its Ld 8-1 break test and the scar vet cought it.
also, the handlers aren't quite ignored, they form a unit with the hydra and you have to engage as many models in base to base as possible so you actually engage all 3 since they have 20x20 bases while a scar vet has either 25x25 or 25x50

Sry but thats wrong. The rule book is very clear about how monsters and handlers work. If you charge a Hydra you COMPLETLY ignore the handlers as if they weren't there, which means you only need to charge in with as many of YOUR models into base contact with the hydra. After you have moved all your units into base contact the handlers then move into contact with as many as possible. You don't need to maximize contact with the handlers, its your opponent that does that after you charge him.

"When charging or being charged though, the handlers are completly ignored (as if they weren't there) and the monster model is the only model that matters."

"Once the monster is in contact with the enemy, form the handlers up with the monster in the same way as you would for a unit of skirmishers"

- Page 67 BRB

So you charge the monster in any way you want, with as many of your models in BTB concact with the hydra as possible (in this case 1, which can be placed in the middle). Then the opponent rank up his handlers, but as you have placed your character in line with the Hydras center there is no room and they will rank up behind the hydra. This is a sneaky way of using the rule and if you dont want to you can rank up with the handlers as well but its perfectly legal to charge a hydra with a single char in a way that keeps the handlers from ranking up.

 

[Kroq9Gar]

Ok, against the hydra use the razordons and skinks. Then blast it with a slann, using probably Pit of Shades or something. If you have a scar vet, equip him with piranha blade, so he can deal double wounds. If you went for the Oldblood, use Blade of Realities to knock the not-very-leaderlike hydra and all its heads to the ground. I play with HE and Lizardmen, and my sister uses DE, so, beware of elven spearmen! Try to hit the high WS guys (executioners, black guard etc.) with ranged magic and razordons and skinks. Works a treat.

 

[Sebulba]

Yeah, I feel like we have a lot of tools to deal with the Blackguard Deathstar type unit. Lots of impact his, shooting and magic really kills T3 troops with little to no armor.

 

[Bibamus]

10 skinks work wonders against black guard. had mine run circle arround his unit yesterday and killed 13 black guard while he wass running after saurus and skinks, quite fun.