8th Ed. ETC lists are up

[NexS1]

ETC lists are up, and i've had a bit of a look through. There seems to be a trend with the Lizardmen lists there:
Slann in TG unit
Priests
multiple cold one scarvets
skink cloud



I wonder why all the lists look the same? hahaha (A hint: it's because those are our best value things!)

What are your thoughts on the list builds, folks?


Here's the link i was directed to (there's list posted on another forum post I found as well, so I assume it's ok to post this?)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p3qkzl6q34b9or1/AAACjZt_yd9UhyE38XpSDUnaa

 

[Mr Phat]

Ireland be dirty dirty!
Check the army selection of irelands
James 'thefitzsuation' Fitzsimons (the top one)


Interesting lists, yet many of them are clearly for point denial -.-'

 

[SilverFaith]

Interesting lists, yet many of them are clearly for point denial -.-'

You mean like the average skink cloud is?

I don't know if these people have any sort of restictions on them, but a lot of these sounds incredibly un-fun to play against. Specifically the VC players, who stock up on as many ethereals as they possibly can.

The problem also seems to be that, if the overall "meta" is point denial, you need to do the same. If you don't you losts basically before deploying your army, because you don't actually have the rounds required to kill enough of the enemies, when they are centered around getting as few deaths as possible.

This is why deathstars are useless. Not because they are weak, but because everyone just makes lists that rely not on actually winning or killing the enemy, but merely stalling them until the timer runs out.

One thing i did notice, however, is that a lot of these lists would be completely useless in a Watchtower scenario. I wonder if this is because the ETC have done the typical "only battleline" games or something to that effect. Can't really find the rules in that link.

 

[Mr Phat]

I don't know if these people have any sort of restictions on them,

Its ETC Restrictions.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=119292&start=0

but a lot of these sounds incredibly un-fun to play against

I dont know what to say to that. ETC isnt casual play. Its bring your hardgame or stay in your garage really. This is a world league.

The problem also seems to be that, if the overall "meta" is point denial, you need to do the same. If you don't you losts basically before deploying your army, because you don't actually have the rounds required to kill enough of the enemies, when they are centered around getting as few deaths as possible.

In ETC there is "matchups". You see what the other Team has and you try get your armies against the best suited opponnent through a certain way of drafting.

WHen I say point denial, I mean its the lizards players team duty to take on the big lists. Not to win, but to negate their hardhitter lists.
If Lets say team Norway goes against team England and they see that the english have a serious melee WoC list which Norway cant deal with, they try to match it with a "point denial" list, as Lizardmen.
If the Lizardplayer makes it a 10-10 its a victory.

This is why deathstars are useless. Not because they are weak, but because everyone just makes lists that rely not on actually winning or killing the enemy, but merely stalling them until the timer runs out.

Deathstars are very viable in ETC, I dont know what Meta you come from but around here it works great if you you arent foolish enough to not bring chaff yourself (which you should be able to, as your Bus may not exceed 450pts - without characters)

One thing i did notice, however, is that a lot of these lists would be completely useless in a Watchtower scenario. I wonder if this is because the ETC have done the typical "only battleline" games or something to that effect

Correct, ETC is only Battleline.

 

[SilverFaith]

Meh, never got that sort of "Win At All Cost" mentality. But that is obviously just personal preference, so whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Correct, ETC is only Battleline.

So it is automatically skewed towards armies that work best as a battleline?

How dull.

I do like the first rule change, however. "Save or die" spells have always been stupid, and allowiwng at least SOME kind of save is better than nothing.

Though the rest of them... limiting potential channel+bonus dice, but allowing dwarves to exceed that limit... That's just a buff to an army that is already really good at battleline and shutting down magic to begin with. Coupled with a futher cap on the amount of dice you can actully use, this just makes an already good anti-magic faction even better at shutting down magic entirely.

These rules just seem contrived to me. There is likely some good reasoning behind them, but I just don't see it. Seems more like personal bias, rather than actual balances. Especially the "max 3 scarvet cowboys/salamanders" seems oddly contived.

Is there actually some good reasoning behind these rule changes?

 

[Pinktaco]

Tbh i didn't find the lists to be that dull. I mean yeah we have the typical net lists, but some of these aren't completely out of the way of what my friend and I could bring in our games.

Also lol at the all flying Lizzie list. I'd love to see that one in action XD

 

[rantapanda]

This is the updated ETC comp ruling:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=122264&start=0

Lizardmen
• Skink Skirmisher units (max 4)/Skink Cohort unit/Flying, non-Frenzied, units or characters/Salamander models, max 14

 

[Qupakoco]

These rules just seem contrived to me. There is likely some good reasoning behind them, but I just don't see it. Seems more like personal bias, rather than actual balances. Especially the "max 3 scarvet cowboys/salamanders" seems oddly contived.

Is there actually some good reasoning behind these rule changes?

Basically it's all from personal bias. Global personal bias. ETC "tries" to cut out the OP things in armies to make the game more "fair." Personally I think the restrictions are balogna and don't actually achieve anything.

Take the cowboy/sally restriction as an example. 3 Scar Vets are still pretty tough to deal with. So you can take 1 OB and 3 SVs and a big ol' CO bus. Not much can handle that, plus you'll still have room for a cheap Slann. So what did that rule accomplish? I guess you can't take Salamanders now, but who cares? They aren't as amazing as they were in the last book. It's like there is still an overall fear of Salamanders that's been held over from the last year.


All that said, I'm sure if I spent a month brooding over the perfect list I could come up with something super duper cheesy. ETC makes it so we can't have too much cheese. Just enough cheese. And not fried cheese since we can't bring enough Salamanders to burn the cheese so the outside is crisp and the inside is gooey. Cheeeeeeeeese.


EDIT: I guess I didn't see the new restrictions for LM. How is the new rule supposed to be applied? Does the cap at 14 apply to characters, Salamanders. and Skirmishers? Like you can have as many of each type as long as you don't go over 14 total?

 

[rantapanda]

These rules just seem contrived to me. There is likely some good reasoning behind them, but I just don't see it. Seems more like personal bias, rather than actual balances. Especially the "max 3 scarvet cowboys/salamanders" seems oddly contived.

Is there actually some good reasoning behind these rule changes?

Basically it's all from personal bias. Global personal bias. ETC "tries" to cut out the OP things in armies to make the game more "fair." Personally I think the restrictions are balogna and don't actually achieve anything.

Take the cowboy/sally restriction as an example. 3 Scar Vets are still pretty tough to deal with. So you can take 1 OB and 3 SVs and a big ol' CO bus. Not much can handle that, plus you'll still have room for a cheap Slann. So what did that rule accomplish? I guess you can't take Salamanders now, but who cares? They aren't as amazing as they were in the last book. It's like there is still an overall fear of Salamanders that's been held over from the last year.


All that said, I'm sure if I spent a month brooding over the perfect list I could come up with something super duper cheesy. ETC makes it so we can't have too much cheese. Just enough cheese. And not fried cheese since we can't bring enough Salamanders to burn the cheese so the outside is crisp and the inside is gooey. Cheeeeeeeeese.


EDIT: I guess I didn't see the new restrictions for LM. How is the new rule supposed to be applied? Does the cap at 14 apply to characters, Salamanders. and Skirmishers? Like you can have as many of each type as long as you don't go over 14 total?

How I understand this is that the cap doesnt apply to characters in general anymore, like scarvets etc.
the part "Flying, non-Frenzied, units or characters" can be confusing though, but how I understand it is that it applies to terradon units and chiefs on terradons

 

[Putzfrau]

ETC is an entirely different atmosphere played in a way most people, even tournament regulars, would be entirely unfamiliar with.

I don't think its fair to pass judgement if you never plan to play the game in such a way.

 

[Ondjage]

I love ETC, the restrictions arent too harsh, its very uncomplicated to make lists with the system (as opposed to swedish comp), you have alot of freedom, and the weaker armies get extra points. On top of that, the GG spells (dwellers, purple sun) are a tad nerfed, and the pre-determined (you play one of eight maps) battlefields are great.

 

[NexS1]

it's very interesting to read the restrictions and BRB changes that apply to ETC. I don't know how i'f go with remembering everything though!!