AoS EOTG and Voracious Appetite

[Nefertem]

What if I get the 18+ off of the EOTG with Rippers in 3“ of the toad...? As far as I see it, the attacks value from the beak is changed from 1 to 3 (toad), then doubled to 6 by the engine's effect?

Same with the Kroxigor's Moonstone...do I simply double the number of it's targets in range?

 

[Aginor]

Rippers:

The confusing thing on first glance is the wording of "3 instead of 1" combined with "double". But actually it is rather easy:

The toad does not change the attacks characteristic. What happens is:
The Engine doubles the attacks characteristic from 1 to 2.
Now the Ripper makes its 2 attacks.
And while each of those 2 attacks is carried out, you check if the toad is within 2" of the target unit, and then it makes 3 instead of that 1.

I know it is the same result as you said, six attacks.
It is just important to explain it that way so it is clear to everyone why those two rules are working together without conflict.


Kroxigor:
This one is interesting, as there is no numerical value for the attacks characteristic that you can double.
That leads to two possibilities:
1. The dumb one: The Kroxigor's attack is not affected. But why shouldn't they swing twice? Time crawls to a halt so the Seraphon army has a free attack action. I see no reason why the Kroxigor with the Moon Hammer should stand around and do nothing during that time.
2. The reasonable one: You trigger the special paragraph twice. So the Moon Hammer counts the number of enemies within range twice, before carrying out any of the attacks.

So yeah, for practical purposes the Moon Hammer doubles its attacks.

 

[Nefertem]

Hmmm...the warscroll says you make 3 instead of 1 attack....so I'd still say the attacks value is changed by the toad. And that number is doubled by the eotg's effect, resulting in 18 attacks in total by the unit.

The outcome is the same, but I've an issue with...

Now the Ripper makes its 2 attacks.
And while each of those 2 attacks is carried out, you check if the toad is within 2" of the target unit, and then it makes 3 instead of that 1.

Just doesn't feels right to me... That way one could say: you double the attacks (eotg) resulting in 2 attacks. Then you check range of the toad. When in 2" you make 3 instead of 2 (of the initally 1) attacks (voracious appetite). Thus you end up with 3 attacks total per ripper. That way you gained nothing.... or am I missing something here?

 

[Aginor]

The text is vague enough so you could argument like that, yes.

But it leads to a bit of a convoluted logic since you cannot take the literal wording of the ability anymore (as it directly mentions the numbers).
With the explanation I used the math still fits to the numbers as they are written in the text.

I know I probably shouldn't do it but I am a bit used to working with law texts and the like, and normally the very first interpretation (after judging which rules even apply) that has to fit is the literal one, judging word by word. After that conflicts between rules are being looked at comparatively, the legal history is taken into account, and then the intent of the law is being looked at.
Unfortunately the clearness of GW rules often leaves much to be desired...

Bottom line: Of course each Ripper makes six attacks, that's absolutely clear to me.

 

[Nefertem]

No problem here, discussing and looking at it from every possible angle....thanks so far