Slann
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
Eleventh Spawning
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It's about time we had another Controversy Meme, and this time, it's Disney films!
Here's the template:
And here is my complete version (assuming the live-action remakes are allowed):
And now for my reasons:
Favourite Character: Hades! Now given he's a villain he is also a good contender for the Favourite Villain category, but Hades as a fair amount of development outside being a villain - you can understand his annoyance and jealousy when the other gods snub his jokes and entertainment, and his lively, sneaky, double-dealing attitude sometimes you feel as though you want to root for him over his heroic nemesis Hercules.
Favourite Villain: While Hades is one of my favourite villains, he is not the best as a villain in my eye. That title belongs to the Horned King from the Black Cauldron, chiefly because unlike Hades who has a comical and personable side that sometimes prompts you to root for him, the Horned King does not, and that makes him a whole lot more villainous. Superbly played by the late John Hurt, the Horned King is wholly sinister, ruthless and callous, as well as having some truly powerful villain music.
Favourite Movie: While I enjoy both Hercules and The Black Cauldron, Hercules has some tacky 90s catchphrases and The Black Cauldron hasn't much in the way of comedy. That's why I've nominated Robin Hood as my favourite Disney movie - it's not meant to be historically accurate in every way, it's meant mainly to be cheery and a whole lot of fun, with the hilarious aftermath of the archery tournament being probably one of my favourite animated scenes ever. And yet, even here there is a dark period, when Friar Tuck is captured and sentenced to death and all the other villagers of Nottingham languish in a miserable, dank cell, while Prince John gets ever more evil and megalomanical in his obsession with capturing Robin Hood, which is a nice change from all the comedy at the beginning and shows that when the villains get mean, things do get pretty darn bad for the heroes.
Despised Character: One of three major rants I have about the Jungle Book remake is how they portrayed Baloo - a character who is a cheery, happy-go-lucky best buddy to Mowgli in the original is turned into an initially selfish and uncaring character who's quite willing to let Mowgli get stung to death just to get him a meal, who then briefly turns into the original Jungle Book Baloo when they sing 'Bare Necessities' before returning to his selfish self later on in the film. I've never read the actual book so can't say which portrayal of Baloo is more accurate at the moment, but certainly until I do read it, I'm labelling this portrayal of him as being far inferior to Phil Harris' version. I can't think of any other characters from films that I've seen that I actively dislike, though if I think of one I'll add it to this paragraph.
Despised Villain: The second rant is how they changed Kaa. Not content with Disney changing Kaa to a villain in the original, the team behind the remake not only keep Kaa as a villain (and with regards to the comments about him being creepy, surely that is good given he's a villain?), but change his gender to please the female supremacists, so that when she sings Kaa's song, all the python comes across as is tarty (which is actually quite fitting given the actress voicing her is better known for her chest than her acting talent). Not only that, but she also only appears in a single scene of this film before being flattened by Bagheera. By far the worst villain appearance I've seen. If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote Shan Yu to be the worst villain - though I haven't seen Mulan all the way through, I do know he has a ridiculously stupid defeat and death which stops me from taking him seriously. Also his nationality is historically inaccurate (the Huns attacked Rome, not China, if anything Shan Yu would be a Mongol).
Despised Movie: And if it wasn't clear already, the Jungle Book remake is also by far the least favourite Disney film I've seen, principally because of these changes, and also that Colonel Hathi was cut out pretty much entirely, King Louie was inexplicably made ridiculously huge and while Idris Elba is a decent actor, his Shere Khan was not a patch on that of the legendary George Sanders. In fact the only things I do not dislike in this version were the porcupine character voiced by Gary Shandling (Vern from Over the Hedge) and the appearance of Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, a mongoose character from the original book (though even then he didn't have much of an appearance). If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote for one of the many films I see as extremely forgettable, like Aladdin, The Lion King, Chicken Little or The Incredibles, or the evil satanic-cult-creator that is Frozen (though I've never actually seen it, just been tortured by the songs).
Overrated Movie: Certainly of all those subpar films I mentioned previously, The Lion King appears to be by far the most beloved by the overall majority, so it has to take the place of Most Overrated Movie. I just can't understand the hype behind it all - a storyline that rips off Hamlet among other things, cringeworthy safari-theme songs and a villain that does very little himself and relies upon servants to do anything of note. Also perhaps it's because lions were never my favourite wild animal to begin with.
Underrated Movie: The Black Cauldron takes the second of its glory spots on the list. Released in 1985, the only reason it failed at the box office was that it was too scary for the kiddies at that time. Though I admit having a (now deleted) scene with a man's flesh sloughing from his bones as he turns into a Cauldron Born may be a bit much, the rest of it isn't that different from the darker family films of today (Kung Fu Panda 2 is a particular example of this), and I think if it had been shown two or three decades later it would have become a lot more appreciated and may well have done better at the box office. Certainly people rate it a lot more than they used to (though sceptics will always exist) and I personally love how different it is from the usual singalong-happy-day fare of Disney.
Best Song: While I'm a particular fan of the songs from Robin Hood and the original Jungle Book, my favourite song is very short, very snappy and deliciously creepy - the Underworld intro from Hercules. Wailing and groaning chorals make it as if the souls of the Underworld themselves are singing, while the slow tempo of the song matches the slow, relentless punting of the skeletal Charon the ferryman perfectly. All the while Hades is standing on his ship, casually incinerating problematic Shades with hellfire and tossing a chunk of meat to Cerberus as if he's just driving to work in the morning (which, of course, he pretty much is).
Worst Song: Here it is. I have to resist trembling as I type its name into this post on my keyboard. The abhorrent Let It Go that has somehow become hailed as one of the most popular songs of the 21st Century. Humanity really has lost pretty much all knowledge of what culture is if such caterwauling can become so revered among the majority. Perhaps my hatred of this dirge was influenced by the fact that when I used to go to college, there were also a load of 13-16 year old girls on the bus, some of whom used to sing it regularly, but I still think it a genuinely awful song. I don't know who Idina Menzel is but I think she needs to keep having singing lessons.
Most Overrated Character: Personally I think Olaf is one of the most overrated comic-relief characters of all time, and this is coming from a guy who likes most comic-relief characters, including among others, Dobby, Jar Jar, Gurgi and Mr. Bean. I haven't seen Frozen as I've said before (thank the Gods) but it's pretty well-known that his entire routine is pretty much the same few snowman jokes over and over again. Also he is one of those characters that some find strangely adorable and others find absolutely sickening. My opinion is obviously the latter.
Most Underrated Character: I've got a sad joke for you - when is a princess not a princess? When she's called Eilonwy and she's from The Black Cauldron. I'd better give that joke back to Disney now before they copyright it. What's even more sad is that as part of their 'Disney Princess' clan, the House of Mouse is quite happy to include characters that are no more of royal blood than I am, yet they'd never let Eilonwy in the club even though she is from a Disney movie and has 'Princess' in her title (and was without doubt of royal blood in the novel series the film was based on, The Chronicles of Prydain), just because her film was too scary for the kiddiwinks.
Personally I think Eilonwy is one of the better female characters, because she manages to be a strong female character before the female supremacist era turned strong female characters up to 11. The biggest problem I have with feminism is that it doesn't actually redeem femininity in any way, it just encourages women to adopt more traditionally 'masculine' behaviours (promiscuity, aggression, lack of emotion). Eilonwy's different in that she is recognisably feminine (she's emotional and recoils in a suitably feminine manner at the Cauldron Born), but at the same time she has the backbone to stand up for herself and use her initiative to get out of trouble, which is a sign of inner strength. Anyone can develop inner strength, male or female, and Eilonwy is a personification of a female example of this philosophy.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you all come up with!
Here's the template:
And here is my complete version (assuming the live-action remakes are allowed):
And now for my reasons:
Favourite Character: Hades! Now given he's a villain he is also a good contender for the Favourite Villain category, but Hades as a fair amount of development outside being a villain - you can understand his annoyance and jealousy when the other gods snub his jokes and entertainment, and his lively, sneaky, double-dealing attitude sometimes you feel as though you want to root for him over his heroic nemesis Hercules.
Favourite Villain: While Hades is one of my favourite villains, he is not the best as a villain in my eye. That title belongs to the Horned King from the Black Cauldron, chiefly because unlike Hades who has a comical and personable side that sometimes prompts you to root for him, the Horned King does not, and that makes him a whole lot more villainous. Superbly played by the late John Hurt, the Horned King is wholly sinister, ruthless and callous, as well as having some truly powerful villain music.
Favourite Movie: While I enjoy both Hercules and The Black Cauldron, Hercules has some tacky 90s catchphrases and The Black Cauldron hasn't much in the way of comedy. That's why I've nominated Robin Hood as my favourite Disney movie - it's not meant to be historically accurate in every way, it's meant mainly to be cheery and a whole lot of fun, with the hilarious aftermath of the archery tournament being probably one of my favourite animated scenes ever. And yet, even here there is a dark period, when Friar Tuck is captured and sentenced to death and all the other villagers of Nottingham languish in a miserable, dank cell, while Prince John gets ever more evil and megalomanical in his obsession with capturing Robin Hood, which is a nice change from all the comedy at the beginning and shows that when the villains get mean, things do get pretty darn bad for the heroes.
Despised Character: One of three major rants I have about the Jungle Book remake is how they portrayed Baloo - a character who is a cheery, happy-go-lucky best buddy to Mowgli in the original is turned into an initially selfish and uncaring character who's quite willing to let Mowgli get stung to death just to get him a meal, who then briefly turns into the original Jungle Book Baloo when they sing 'Bare Necessities' before returning to his selfish self later on in the film. I've never read the actual book so can't say which portrayal of Baloo is more accurate at the moment, but certainly until I do read it, I'm labelling this portrayal of him as being far inferior to Phil Harris' version. I can't think of any other characters from films that I've seen that I actively dislike, though if I think of one I'll add it to this paragraph.
Despised Villain: The second rant is how they changed Kaa. Not content with Disney changing Kaa to a villain in the original, the team behind the remake not only keep Kaa as a villain (and with regards to the comments about him being creepy, surely that is good given he's a villain?), but change his gender to please the female supremacists, so that when she sings Kaa's song, all the python comes across as is tarty (which is actually quite fitting given the actress voicing her is better known for her chest than her acting talent). Not only that, but she also only appears in a single scene of this film before being flattened by Bagheera. By far the worst villain appearance I've seen. If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote Shan Yu to be the worst villain - though I haven't seen Mulan all the way through, I do know he has a ridiculously stupid defeat and death which stops me from taking him seriously. Also his nationality is historically inaccurate (the Huns attacked Rome, not China, if anything Shan Yu would be a Mongol).
Despised Movie: And if it wasn't clear already, the Jungle Book remake is also by far the least favourite Disney film I've seen, principally because of these changes, and also that Colonel Hathi was cut out pretty much entirely, King Louie was inexplicably made ridiculously huge and while Idris Elba is a decent actor, his Shere Khan was not a patch on that of the legendary George Sanders. In fact the only things I do not dislike in this version were the porcupine character voiced by Gary Shandling (Vern from Over the Hedge) and the appearance of Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, a mongoose character from the original book (though even then he didn't have much of an appearance). If the remakes are not allowed in this discussion, I would instead vote for one of the many films I see as extremely forgettable, like Aladdin, The Lion King, Chicken Little or The Incredibles, or the evil satanic-cult-creator that is Frozen (though I've never actually seen it, just been tortured by the songs).
Overrated Movie: Certainly of all those subpar films I mentioned previously, The Lion King appears to be by far the most beloved by the overall majority, so it has to take the place of Most Overrated Movie. I just can't understand the hype behind it all - a storyline that rips off Hamlet among other things, cringeworthy safari-theme songs and a villain that does very little himself and relies upon servants to do anything of note. Also perhaps it's because lions were never my favourite wild animal to begin with.
Underrated Movie: The Black Cauldron takes the second of its glory spots on the list. Released in 1985, the only reason it failed at the box office was that it was too scary for the kiddies at that time. Though I admit having a (now deleted) scene with a man's flesh sloughing from his bones as he turns into a Cauldron Born may be a bit much, the rest of it isn't that different from the darker family films of today (Kung Fu Panda 2 is a particular example of this), and I think if it had been shown two or three decades later it would have become a lot more appreciated and may well have done better at the box office. Certainly people rate it a lot more than they used to (though sceptics will always exist) and I personally love how different it is from the usual singalong-happy-day fare of Disney.
Also I like how the film subverts the Hero's Journey trope by having the flawed hero give away his magic sword, not defeat the villain himself and effectively say 'sod this war crap, it's overrated and I'm going to go back to being a swineherd, come on friends let's go home'.
Best Song: While I'm a particular fan of the songs from Robin Hood and the original Jungle Book, my favourite song is very short, very snappy and deliciously creepy - the Underworld intro from Hercules. Wailing and groaning chorals make it as if the souls of the Underworld themselves are singing, while the slow tempo of the song matches the slow, relentless punting of the skeletal Charon the ferryman perfectly. All the while Hades is standing on his ship, casually incinerating problematic Shades with hellfire and tossing a chunk of meat to Cerberus as if he's just driving to work in the morning (which, of course, he pretty much is).
Worst Song: Here it is. I have to resist trembling as I type its name into this post on my keyboard. The abhorrent Let It Go that has somehow become hailed as one of the most popular songs of the 21st Century. Humanity really has lost pretty much all knowledge of what culture is if such caterwauling can become so revered among the majority. Perhaps my hatred of this dirge was influenced by the fact that when I used to go to college, there were also a load of 13-16 year old girls on the bus, some of whom used to sing it regularly, but I still think it a genuinely awful song. I don't know who Idina Menzel is but I think she needs to keep having singing lessons.
Most Overrated Character: Personally I think Olaf is one of the most overrated comic-relief characters of all time, and this is coming from a guy who likes most comic-relief characters, including among others, Dobby, Jar Jar, Gurgi and Mr. Bean. I haven't seen Frozen as I've said before (thank the Gods) but it's pretty well-known that his entire routine is pretty much the same few snowman jokes over and over again. Also he is one of those characters that some find strangely adorable and others find absolutely sickening. My opinion is obviously the latter.
Most Underrated Character: I've got a sad joke for you - when is a princess not a princess? When she's called Eilonwy and she's from The Black Cauldron. I'd better give that joke back to Disney now before they copyright it. What's even more sad is that as part of their 'Disney Princess' clan, the House of Mouse is quite happy to include characters that are no more of royal blood than I am, yet they'd never let Eilonwy in the club even though she is from a Disney movie and has 'Princess' in her title (and was without doubt of royal blood in the novel series the film was based on, The Chronicles of Prydain), just because her film was too scary for the kiddiwinks.
Personally I think Eilonwy is one of the better female characters, because she manages to be a strong female character before the female supremacist era turned strong female characters up to 11. The biggest problem I have with feminism is that it doesn't actually redeem femininity in any way, it just encourages women to adopt more traditionally 'masculine' behaviours (promiscuity, aggression, lack of emotion). Eilonwy's different in that she is recognisably feminine (she's emotional and recoils in a suitably feminine manner at the Cauldron Born), but at the same time she has the backbone to stand up for herself and use her initiative to get out of trouble, which is a sign of inner strength. Anyone can develop inner strength, male or female, and Eilonwy is a personification of a female example of this philosophy.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you all come up with!
Last edited:
. For my list, I'll only be considering the classically animated Disney movies, as that feels like a more fair comparison. No live action and no CGI films! Some of these are a bit tough because it has been a good number of years since I've seen quite a few of these films (and some that I have never seen at all).
