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8th Ed. Cupped Hands and Throne of wines

serbianwolf
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serbianwolf

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In case you are running cupped hands and lore of life with throne of wines on your slann and you miscast, do you chose which one of these to use, ore you can use one of them and if you roll a one then the other?
 
Every time you miscast, the wizard rolls a dice. On a 2+ the miscast is ignored.

You can't elect not to roll the dice to ignore the miscast. That would be poor form.

Even so, cupped hands is better in 8th and throne of vines is definitely a spell you want to keep on your slann when possible. I would still bring the item on a life slann as your not immune to miscasts with throne, so less likely to suffer one.
 
so if you have throne on wines active, you can use cupped hands only if you role a 1 on a throne dice roll. correct?
 
You decide the order they get used in as nothing states a necessary order but you must use throne of vines if you have it active.

Personally I think it is overkill to stack both but each to their own.
 
ok but if you can't use both on one miscast(if one of the roll fails) then that lives the cupped hands with only the function to potentially harm the opponents wizard, which sounds a bit not to much for a 45 point item, am I wrong?
 
Basically, throne of vines may stop the miscast from happening. Cupped hands only works when a miscast actually happens.

There is no real conflict because you can't use cupped hands unless you fail the throne roll and thus, the miscast happens. When cupped hands comes into use, the throne of vines effect will have to have been resolved already.

So, you roll your throne of vines save. You roll a 1. The miscast happens. You then make your cupped hands roll to see if you're getting the miscast, or an opponent.

The hierarchy of what's happening is fine, and the throne of vines makes it clear, you have to roll to avoid the miscast.
 
If you have throne of vines and cupped hands you choose the order they take place. My personal preference is that if the miscast is nasty (S10 large template or lose d3 levels) I try to cupped hands it off first, otherwise I try to throne of vines first and save CH as back up in case I fail the roll.
 
hmmm seems people have different understanding how this exactly works....
 
BRB, random page. if 2 or more rules afeect the same situation and are in conflict regarding the order the active player decides on the order.

as for the argument that a miscast is necessary for cupped hands: same for throne of vines, both afeect the miscast in the same way and you can actually use both. quite similar to armour save and ward/regen. if one fails you use the other, if both fail the miscast happens.

also, cupped hands is rather expensive to put on a life slann and most of the time a waste of points, you're better off with it on an EotG
 
well the way I see it on a life slann it has o soul purpose of killing the enemy mage in case of miscasts...
 
throne of vines works before cupped hands becouse you dont roll on miscast table before you fail throne of vines 2+ roll if you fail it you roll what miscast it is, then oponnent may or may not change something, than you roll 2+ on cupped hands to see if you put it on other wizard.
 
the problem is, that you don't have to roll on the miscast table before declaring the use of the cupped hands. i do agree taht with throne of vies in play you would have to throw any miscast at the opponent before rolling for it, even if its the least ahrmful of the lot and you'd normally save the cupped hands for a "better one"
 
Bibamus said:
the problem is, that you don't have to roll on the miscast table before declaring the use of the cupped hands. i do agree taht with throne of vies in play you would have to throw any miscast at the opponent before rolling for it, even if its the least ahrmful of the lot and you'd normally save the cupped hands for a "better one"
Click to expand...
Actually, the FAQ says you roll before you hand it over.
 
That's exactly why I don't see the spell and item conflicting. You don't roll on the chart and then do your vines save.

The order would be

spell -> miscast -> vines save -> roll your miscast if your fail -> cupped hands.
 
Gojira said:
That's exactly why I don't see the spell and item conflicting. You don't roll on the chart and then do your vines save.

The order would be

spell -> miscast -> vines save -> roll your miscast if your fail -> cupped hands.
Click to expand...

It doesn't say you can't roll on the chart then choose to vines it either.

As it stands, what a miscast is exactly is rather vague--is the actual miscast the double sixes or is the actual miscast the roll on the miscast table? My group has been playing it the second way, so you roll on then table then you can choose to ignore it with vines or hand it off with cupped hands via the sequencing rule on page 10.
 
I think a miscast is the point you roll a double 6 on the dice. It's the start of the miscast 'life cycle' if you will. Rolling on the chart happens second.
 
Gojira said:
I think a miscast is the point you roll a double 6 on the dice. It's the start of the miscast 'life cycle' if you will. Rolling on the chart happens second.
Click to expand...
It's definitely something I'd like to see FAQ'ed, especially since it would cover for sure whether or not you can use an IF'ed throne of vines to ignore it's own miscast.
 
Well, the spell gets resolved first, then you start on the miscast bit. But there's a better argument to be had of not being able to vines a vine miscast.

Even so, if someone doesn't think the order of vines and cupped hands is clear, then whoever's turn it is, gets to decide the order they are resolved (Page 10).
 
Just going over that whole section again, it says a miscast is when irresistible force occurs, which it says happens when you roll 2 or more unmodified 6s when determining his casting result. So basically, it's trying to say they happen at the same time.

Then it says in the miscast section

'When IR occurs, first resolve the effect of the spell that the wizard was attempting to cast. As the spell has been cast with IR, the casting player can at least enjoy the effect of his spell before something almost indescribably bad happens to the wizard and everyone nearby.


First they try to say that IR and miscast starts at the same time. Then it tries to say that a wizard should be able to get the benefit of a spell before the bad bit happens.

Personally, I will follow the bit that is more clear, until an FAQ changes something.
 
It's one of those things you want to talk about with your group or to a T.O. before it happens in the middle of a game, just to save time and not interrupt a big battle.

Stuff like this is why I wish GW would use a group of hardcore rules lawyers to playtest their new editions and army books.
 
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