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8th Ed. Cold ones, as both units and mounts

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skoby

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Since I am planning on starting my army with a Batallion and I really like the models, I will be using cold ones in my army, saying this I have almost no idea how they fit in with 8th edition. In addition I was considering mounting my scar vets on cold ones, but with stupidity I'm unsure how wise this is.

First of all, Cold One Riders; Since you now need 10 of them to cancel out ranks, how do these work in 8th edition. Is a small unit of 5 valid when joined by a scar vet and how would you get the most out of this unit? Is full command worthwhile? with cold-blooded just how big an issue is stupidity? and finally, are there any magic banners particularly useful for this unit?

Now for using cold ones with scar vets, if I have a scar vet on a cold one in a saurus regiment does the whole unit suffer from stupidity? If so is there any real reason to mount a scar vet on a cold one if he wont be in a cold one riders unit? I ask since I will likely have more cold one riders from the battalion than I will field I was thinking about using them for my scar vets, but if this will hinder that unit then I will have to reconsider for now, perhaps fielding 19 saurus warriors and converting one to a scar vet.
 
Well a cold one adds +2 to his save, not to be sniffed at,
Critically, it also causes and protects from, fear.
Which is huge,
 
The scar vet will suffer from stupidity with the unit. You will be able to use his LD for the rolls though. It could suck (high rolls) or it could be awesome. If you can keep him close the general and BSB the first round (you could reroll the stupidity--I think--correct me if I am wrong).
 
You sure can re-roll stupidity with the BSB; the problem with putting him in with the saurus is that he won't get a Look Out Sir roll, as he is not the same unit type. If you don't see that being a problem, go for it.
 
Page 107 of the rule book states that failed leadership rolls of any kind can be rerolled. As I read that, it means that if the unit is within 12 inches, they can reroll.

The look out sir roll is alarming, but the 2+ should save him on that from most shooting. Another question would be...does the unit get a ward save due to shields (or is that only on infantry) and handweapons?
 
Yeah he will be a bit exposed to shooting, and especially things like catapults and cannons with the way they work now, so a bit dangerous. The stupidity usually won't be an issue with cold blooded and hopefully rerolls if near the BSB.

Cold One units are a bit overpriced now. Remember if you take 10, the opponent needs only to kill 1 and the unit no longer denies ranks. They will hit like an absolute ton of bricks when they charge though, and remember any in the second row get an attack as well, plus they have really good staying power with cold blooded and multiple high strength attacks. The problem is the opponent will have steadfast, so unless you can get rid of that rank bonus you can charge in and kill 10-20 (quite possible on a decent roll) and they will still get full leadership and most likely stay.

They are good if you realise they need support, a cheapish unit of skinks would work well as flankers to deny ranks while the COs hit the front. However it is a huge amount of points.
 
I don't see a mounted Scar-Vet in a Saurus unit being a target priority for cannons and such, at least in larger games. We should be presenting many more tasty targets. In smaller games, I can see it being an issue, where the Scar-Vet is the scariest thing we control. Otherwise, I like my mounted Scar Vet with the Armor of Destiny and great weapon. 1+/4+ save attacking at str 7. Simple and brutal.
 
Mounted scar vet in a unit of CoC with the Haunchis totem moves base+3d6 (drop the lowest)+1d6...

Up to a 25 inch charge range with 16+ inches being standard... Yeah kinda scary....

Not to mention they cause fear, so thats +1 CR...
 
gah could of sworn it did!!! Stupid rumor threads still mixing me up....

Yeah that makes them less useful, course you can try to get them to WS1...
 
Well, that, and it also makes your Sarus immune to fear if he is with them.
 
I totally forgot it was +2 armour save rather than +1, and it never occured to me that the whole unit would be immune to fear or that you could use BSB for it. So a leadership test with cold blooded and a re-roll (I'm assuming the re-roll also benifits from cold-blooded?) doesn't seem much of a drawback, even with my unlucky dice rolls.

CoC I can see why a lot of people have low oppinions of them in 8th, but I'm not afraid to use them with support plus I think they may have a psychological impact too with people overestimating them.

I'm glad I posted this question, it's revealed some options and benifits that I wasn't aware of :) I think I'll definitely be running 2 scar vets on cold ones when I get my battalion.
 
Interresting thread this.

Personally, I like the look of the CoC and I would definately like to run a Unit of five of them, with an additional Scar-vet. I see a rol for the as a fast moving anvil as well (at least in a Skrox army).

I still need to experiment with Skrox, but if they are viable, you have a Mv 6" battleline. CoC are then not so much faster.

This leads me to my true reservation with CoC. Not only are they overpriced, but they take up a special slot when they now fullfill a line-role.

aK
 
What are you going to do with them? With steadfast getting around now and stepping up, you will just bounce off infantry units. Yeah they will lose combat the first turn, but probably not the second then you need to try to hold. Flankers could work, but they aren't really all that fast for flankers and you need to be aware of stupidity even if it is very unlikely.

Heavy cavaly in general have a much more limited use than last edition, now you must use them in a support only role and to be honest, they are too expensive to be just support. Especially the CoK's. As mentioned, for the points and the special slot I'd rather just have a steg.
 
I don't see where they would break the 2nd round of combat, you will still have your 15 S4 attacks which is the same as 5 wide 3 deep saurus with spears. On top of that you will have a 2+ AS so against most supporting enemy units they will continue to grind them down every round.

The enemy won't break due to stubborn but I don't see you losing combat for a few turns. And to get a unit of 15 spear saurus you would be spending more points than CoC, you only trade models for a much better AS, so aim them at S3 guys and you are golden.
 
My friend was running some stupid critters and some cavalry last night and it brought up two rules changes which both effect cavalry in a good way!

First off all cavalry, war beasts, and light cavalry (and maybe chariots too, no book in front of me) get the swift stride special rule. That means that whenever they charge they roll 3d6 and discard the lowest. Hitatchi's (sp) would actually give them 4d6 discard the lowest for a single charge. With a 7 move this gives them a very reliable charge range for turn 2.

Secondly they shuffled around the movement phase. Now it goes: Charge - Compulsory - Remaining. This means that you can declare and resolve charges before rolling for stupidity. No more will the cold one riders go stupid in the crucial moment.

Please check these rules in your own book as I don’t have mine in front of me but I’m pretty sure both are correct.

I still think the riders are over-costed and have avoided brining them. The initiative 1 is just too painful, with that I can't even handle high str, low armor flankers like rat ogres.
 
Ya know, I've seen it mentioned a couple times now that swift stride gives 3d6 discard the lowest, I believe both times by you. I could have sworn the rule was just 3d6 charge, not discarding any of them.. Every time I see it I am at uni and don't have my book with me, I'll have to remember to check that.


protector said:
I don't see where they would break the 2nd round of combat, you will still have your 15 S4 attacks which is the same as 5 wide 3 deep saurus with spears. On top of that you will have a 2+ AS so against most supporting enemy units they will continue to grind them down every round.

The enemy won't break due to stubborn but I don't see you losing combat for a few turns. And to get a unit of 15 spear saurus you would be spending more points than CoC, you only trade models for a much better AS, so aim them at S3 guys and you are golden.
Click to expand...

I say this because you will suffer casualties, and every knight lost is less attacks at them, but every 5 of them you kill hardly worries the unit. Yeah against basic s3 infantry with no characters you will probably win the second round, but against anything slightly better than that the odds start to stack against you.
 
strewart said:
Ya know, I've seen it mentioned a couple times now that swift stride gives 3d6 discard the lowest, I believe both times by you. I could have sworn the rule was just 3d6 charge, not discarding any of them.. Every time I see it I am at uni and don't have my book with me, I'll have to remember to check that.
Click to expand...

I can confirm, swiftstride is 3d6 discard lowest. It's in the special rules section.
 
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