8th Ed. Cold One Cav

[bhuddiver]

This is both a tactics and modeling question, so I hope I put this in the right forum. General topic: are spears worth the cost? I've seen arguments both ways, but I might have missed a general consensus.

I'm just getting started with LM and have 8 coc. I've turned one into scar vet and another into quasi bsb. I normal play in small games of about 1000 points, so my question is which should I use? And if it's situational, how should I model my 6 remaining coc so I could "do either"?

 

[Man0waR]

Cold One Riders are only meant to give Look Out Sir! rule to our mounted saurus characters.

Otherwise they are fine if you compare against mediocre units, S3 or S4.

And subpar choice against S5 or higher as they have low Initiative and may not strike as they die before dellivering their attacks.

If you already have a S7 Scarvet in the unit, Spears are overkill. If you run the cold one riders alone, spears are good for hunting chariots.

 

[Scalenex]

My thoughts are to go with spears since the Strength 5 hits are backed with PF. I also figure that their regular points cost is high enough that a few more doesn't mean much.

Course I don't use COR much, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[lordkingcrow]

I'm a big advocate for coc (I don't like that acronym ) and I usually run 2 bigger units rather than big dinos. 2+ armor, fear causing, str. 4 (5 with spears), 2 attacks per rider, str. 4 mounts (also with 2 attacks each), oh and don't forget PF... How could you not love them? Throw a Scar-Vet/Oldblood in there and it is one of the most devastating units you can field. I'm sure not everyone will agree, but I've only success with them. So to answer your question... Yes, spears are worth it.

 

[morbal]

After breaking a horde of orgers i'm a big fan of cold one's with spears, indeed with a charater, but a unit of 10 can do a lot, in a flank charge you can kill a lot! but is all a little of personal opinion. some like them and would spend the points for the spears for the little bit extra punch.

 

[SilverFaith]

I'm a big advocate for coc (I don't like that acronym )

Funny, my friends call them "C-O-C", because it reminds them of Call of Cthulhu in most games.

They are absolutely terrifying if they get the charge with spears. A solid unit can dish out a minimum of 15 S5 attacks (2 ranks can attack, first has 2 attacks + any PF procs) and the cold ones throw in 10 attacks at S4.

Get Wyssans on them, and even those tough dwarves will be afraid of sticking around long enough to hit with their great weapons.

 

[NexS1]

Spears




Spears Spears, Spears. Spear-spears.


Spearies. Speeeeaaars.

 

[Ixt]

Spears




Spears Spears, Spears. Spear-spears.


Spearies. Speeeeaaars.

QFT

 

[NexS1]

What is QFT?

 

[Kblock]

I run my COC with spears. The extra boost on the charge is great and they can protect my Cowboys from those pesky cannons my Empire and Dwarf opponents bring. I think the spears are worth the extra cost.

 

[NexS1]

I run my COC with spears. The extra boost on the charge is great and they can protect my Cowboys from those pesky cannons my Empire and Dwarf opponents bring. I think the spears are worth the extra cost.

Even a small unit I ran at a tourney once were champions. Took out a unit of 6 Kroxigors (killed 4 or so), lost 2, won combat and ran them down.

Without spears they'd have just bounced.

 

[Pinktaco]

I run my COC with spears. The extra boost on the charge is great and they can protect my Cowboys from those pesky cannons my Empire and Dwarf opponents bring. I think the spears are worth the extra cost.

Even a small unit I ran at a tourney once were champions. Took out a unit of 6 Kroxigors (killed 4 or so), lost 2, won combat and ran them down.

Without spears they'd have just bounced.

You rolled lucky. It's as easy as that. 6 CoC with spears = 15 attacks including champ and PF = 10 hits = 6,66 wounds = 5,5 wounds after armour save of 6.
Mounts = 12 attacks = 6 hits = 3 wounds = 2 after armour save of 5+.

That's an average of 7,5 wounds. 3 models are 9 wounds so even if we round up the wounds to 8 you'd still be one short to kill 3 whole models. Taking out 4 models would require you to remove 12 wounds. So you did 5 wounds more than the average.

That's fair and stuff like this happens all the time. But lets assume you didn't and we're going strictly off the math:

2/6 kroxigors have been removed after the charge.
4 kroxigors including champ (3 wide) and PF = 18 attacks = 9 hits = 7,5 wounds = 6,3 after 6+ armour.

See the issue here? On average they'll wipe out the entire unit in one go. With full command and spear that's 230pts gone and they only removed 100pts of kroxigors.

CoR are in theory a very awesome. 4 attacks each model? AWESOME but realistically they only have I2 and we pay 4pts each model for gaining +1S ON THE CHARGE. No magic banners.

Honestly if skavenpelt banner was 50pts and we could take that on the unit they could be something, I suppose
If the spears were included in the price as well.

I mean, yes if you pop something like wyssan's wildform the unit gain so much from it because each model have 4 attacks that get improvede. But overall we the unit lack something very important. Being able to strike before they die at WS3/4 and at S4(5). There are tons of way to improve that.

 

[n810]

Actually they just gave you the option of getting them 4 points cheaper,
the COC+spears cost the same as they did in the last book.
Only, spears where mandatory.

Also COC should never attack a unit with great weapons,
as they negate their greatest asset, 2+ armor.
go after ST 3-4 mobs instead.

 

[NexS1]

Oh, I'm not saying they weren't very angry and determined in that game.
That particular situation, I had two options, a long charge into some skinks (failing would have put me up for a flank charge from said kroxigors), or a shorter charge into the krox unit. On a bad day, the CoR would have crippled the unit into being close to useless, but that day was a good one.

It's all about deciding on what you've got in front of you, i made the most logical choice.

 

[Sudaj]

On a somewhat related note... How bad does the Stupidity special rule muck things up for the Cold ones?
I am apprehensive about fielding my 10 Cold One riders, since they could possibly just wander stupidly the whole game and kill nothing...

 

[n810]

If they never get into combat, they fail their roll every 1.5 games.
but typically they are in combat 1/2 of the game so that bumps it up to one fail in 3 games.
and since probably only one of those 3 out of combat rounds is probably going to be critical,
they will only let you down 1 in 9 games.

(Not rounds, but GAMES).

So yea, they are pretty reliable.

Ps. I ran them without spears the other night, I really didn't miss them.

 

[airjamy]

This is a pretty interesting discussion, i often field mine with spears, but if i get really short on points i see myself dropping them. COC are ran best as protect the saurus char units if you ask me, but as they are fast and aoften get the charge of that S5 does ad up in ignoring saves and wounding easier, as i always want my scarvet to go into the thick of things. If spears were 2 points per model i would always take them as a ''steal'' and if they were 6 points per model i would almost never take them i think, as it was to expensive, maybe they are priced just right and it depends on your local meta if you should take them? If you face a lot of regen monsters or hordes, the extra S might not matter as much as you are ignoring armoursaves already with your S4, and you will go to S4 anyway in the subsequent grind..

 

[Pinktaco]

With Lances and improved predatory fighter (now also working on the mounts) these guys have really become something else in 9th age. The lance is also included in the price (30pts) so they're much improved compared to the 8th ed version. They're now truly one of the heavy hitters out there compared to other cavalry units. Oh yeah, they got their magic banner back.