KoW Cok 2019

[Labarna]

Ok, who red Cok 2019? Nothing extra, hm? No new units really, heroes nothing. Maybe a new formation can be playable. Individual is not easy take in our army.

What are you thinking?

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Aunshi form Manticforum.

 

[classicflava]

I think the new ancients formation is fantastic! Frees up hero slots and allows the inspiring talisman to be taken off the mage priest. The corsair formation i think is also amazing. Pair it with some lekelidons and skyraiders and you have a lot of mobile shooting. Was hoping for a larger buff to the ankylodon, but strider plus steady aim makes it playable. Ancients are great now with the formation and vicious.

 

[Labarna]

Also fan of ancient formation, I will use it such early as posible. Lord with ralling and Banner of Gryfon is great.
But corsairs and ankylodon nothing impresive still, in my opinion.
From "new" units Artakl is my favourite, I always had eye for Oxyotl and now I wana play it again. I will try something Itepixcauh style but with ancient formation and this little stalker.

 

[Labarna]

Also fan of ancient formation, I will use it such early as posible. Lord with ralling and Banner of Gryfon is great.
But corsairs and ankylodon nothing impresive still, in my opinion.
From "new" units Artakl is my favourite, I always had eye for Oxyotl and now I wana play it again. I will try something Itepixcauh style but with ancient formation and this little stalker.

I red it one more time and yes, corsairs with hit +1 also for Firebrand is amazing, must make list with corsairs and ancient formations

 

[Itepixcauh]

Well, lets get into it:

- Ancient Formation: Great, not needing Inspiring characters is AMAZING for us, frees up so many points. Only thing I don't like is the tax built into it of having to take the Clan Lord. Getting Fearless on him is great but he's got Rallying too which seems like a good idea but I think it is a double edge sword. You are going to want that CL among your units so you are going to misuse him, as he really wants to be in combat or hunting things.

- Corsair Formation: Brilliant, +4 to hit with no move penalty? hell yeah. Nothing more to say.

- Ankylodon: Still crap, poorly executed buff, Steady aim? sure great but then why not get rid of the 12" attack or buff it with piercing (1) so it makes sense to choose it? that alone shows this was a rush job made with no intention to make the unit usable. Only reason we got those things is for consistency reasons among armies. Poor, poor unit still. Not worth it.

- Hunters: getting Stealthy as standard is great, I would still get a Lekelidon every day of the week but at least they are usable now.

- Clutch Warden. Still the worst character in the game, EXTREMELY over costed. Just compare him to the Hunter Master from the Elves (closest comparison) to see how BAD he still is.

The rest of the list is old news so nothing to say. All in all a quite good update to be honest with two new options to build lists around.

Regarding people complaining about no new units....

This has been said quite clear by Mantic, NO ARMIES WITHOUT MANTIC MINIATURES WILL GET NEW UNITS. They will keep getting tweaks and balance updates but no new units. Those lists are there just so you can use your old armies and miniatures. The only exception are the ratkin this years, the reason is they want you tu use the Miniatures from the Veer-Myn army from Warpath / Deadzone, the new entries have the exact same names as the Warpath units so i'm guessing they will at some point make a resin conversion kit for the Veer-Myn so you can make a Mantic Ratkin army.

For what is worth for me, I have no plans at all to change my lists, my Skink army is what it is and as I said i prefer Lekelidons to Hunters all day long. I will loose the double Martyr's Prayer but I can drop some magic items and swap the second one for Heal+Shroud, not that bad.

 

[Labarna]

Well, lets get into it:

- Ancient Formation: Great, not needing Inspiring characters is AMAZING for us, frees up so many points. Only thing I don't like is the tax built into it of having to take the Clan Lord. Getting Fearless on him is great but he's got Rallying too which seems like a good idea but I think it is a double edge sword. You are going to want that CL among your units so you are going to misuse him, as he really wants to be in combat or hunting things.

- Corsair Formation: Brilliant, +4 to hit with no move penalty? hell yeah. Nothing more to say.

- Ankylodon: Still crap, poorly executed buff, Steady aim? sure great but then why not get rid of the 12" attack or buff it with piercing (1) so it makes sense to choose it? that alone shows this was a rush job made with no intention to make the unit usable. Only reason we got those things is for consistency reasons among armies. Poor, poor unit still. Not worth it.

- Hunters: getting Stealthy as standard is great, I would still get a Lekelidon every day of the week but at least they are usable now.

- Clutch Warden. Still the worst character in the game, EXTREMELY over costed. Just compare him to the Hunter Master from the Elves (closest comparison) to see how BAD he still is.

The rest of the list is old news so nothing to say. All in all a quite good update to be honest with two new options to build lists around.

Regarding people complaining about no new units....

This has been said quite clear by Mantic, NO ARMIES WITHOUT MANTIC MINIATURES WILL GET NEW UNITS. They will keep getting tweaks and balance updates but no new units. Those lists are there just so you can use your old armies and miniatures. The only exception are the ratkin this years, the reason is they want you tu use the Miniatures from the Veer-Myn army from Warpath / Deadzone, the new entries have the exact same names as the Warpath units so i'm guessing they will at some point make a resin conversion kit for the Veer-Myn so you can make a Mantic Ratkin army.

For what is worth for me, I have no plans at all to change my lists, my Skink army is what it is and as I said i prefer Lekelidons to Hunters all day long. I will loose the double Martyr's Prayer but I can drop some magic items and swap the second one for Heal+Shroud, not that bad.

I agree with near all of this, especially that part about new units, warden and my biggest personal disappointment - ankylodon . But we have one new model - Firebrand! But the worst model, ever seen IMO

The mounted CL will by now the best lone killer, thanks to fearless, also nice flanking unit to bigger cavalery thanks to rallying. Simply you must overcome that "sitting between units" idea.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I agree with near all of this, especially that part about new units, warden and my biggest personal disappointment - ankylodon . But we have one new model - Firebrand! But the worst model, ever seen IMO

The mounted CL will by now the best lone killer, thanks to fearless, also nice flanking unit to bigger cavalery thanks to rallying. Simply you must overcome that "sitting between units" idea.

Yeah, he's quite a good character Hunter but I just cannot overcome the fact that for the same amount of points he costs with the banner you can get:

- a mounted Battle Captain
- a mounted herald with the Banner

For my style of playing that is unbelievably better.

But as I said, all in all a very good update to our army, except the Ankylodon, he is SHIT.

 

[Labarna]

Yeah, he's quite a good character Hunter but I just cannot overcome the fact that for the same amount of points he costs with the banner you can get:

- a mounted Battle Captain
- a mounted herald with the Banner

For my style of playing that is unbelievably better.

But as I said, all in all a very good update to our army, except the Ankylodon, he is SHIT.

I preffer your style and your armys list to play too

But now I want try list with ancient and corsair formations, test during Christmas and 9.2. I organize first KoW tournament in our city and If this list will be playable I will play it there.

 

[Itepixcauh]

I preffer your style and your armys list to play too

But now I want try list with ancient and corsair formations, test during Christmas and 9.2. I organize first KoW tournament in our city and If this list will be playable I will play it there.

That would be interesting, let us know how it went, both the testing and the Tournament.

 

[Itepixcauh]

It's also a shame you are so far away, I would be tempted to go to a tournament in mid-southern France...

It's such an amazing experience to travel to a different country to play. I did for Deadzone once and I'm planning to go to the CoK 19 this next year for sure, considering Franticon too but not sure I can.

 

[Labarna]

It's also a shame you are so far away, I would be tempted to go to a tournament in mid-southern France...

It's such an amazing experience to travel to a different country to play. I did for Deadzone once and I'm planning to go to the CoK 19 this next year for sure, considering Franticon too but not sure I can.

Yes, western Carpathians are little bit far from Basque Country. I am from Czech rep./Slovakia borderland, then I can play in both countries. Also in Poland, but it was common mainly in WFB times. Thanks to similarity of slavic languages this is not problem.

In Czech republic, where I live now, we have one big KOW league, consisting from roughly 5-8 one-or-two day tourneys per year in diferent cities. Czech republic is relative small and KOW comunity too, traveling is not difficult. I havent lot of free time and doesnt play regularly, but some players, mainly from bigger cities play at all tourneys and have wargaming hubs.

In year 2019 my city will conect to league first time by one day tournament

Question to vanguard rule in KOW: When I move at the double, can I then in 1. round of normal game play normall? Can move, charge and shot?

 

[Itepixcauh]

Yes, western Carpathians are little bit far from Basque Country. I am from Czech rep./Slovakia borderland, then I can play in both countries. Also in Poland, but it was common mainly in WFB times. Thanks to similarity of slavic languages this is not problem.

In Czech republic, where I live now, we have one big KOW league, consisting from roughly 5-8 one-or-two day tourneys per year in diferent cities. Czech republic is relative small and KOW comunity too, traveling is not difficult. I havent lot of free time and doesnt play regularly, but some players, mainly from bigger cities play at all tourneys and have wargaming hubs.

In year 2019 my city will conect to league first time by one day tournament

Question to vanguard rule in KOW: When I move at the double, can I then in 1. round of normal game play normall? Can move, charge and shot?

Yes, Vanguard moves are outside of the normal turn sequence and thus doesn't count as a move. You just start the game farther ahead so to speak. As this is not a normal move Shambling units CAN move at the double.

 

[Labarna]

Well, whatabout ABF with firebolt? 18" without moving penalty, if I understand that rule well. And with strider in forest is total brickwall and better grinder, as it was. in past Of course for 200 pts will be still better

 

[Labarna]

Something like this:
Ancient formation (mounted CL), 2 x AoR Horde, ABF with firebolt, skyriders with jar, 3 lekelidon, priest heal 6 and 40 points left to 2000

A lot of 18" shooting, relatively fast.

 

[Itepixcauh]

Something like this:
Ancient formation (mounted CL), 2 x AoR Horde, ABF with firebolt, skyriders with jar, 3 lekelidon, priest heal 6 and 40 points left to 2000

A lot of 18" shooting, relatively fast.

I still don't like the ABF myself, too expensive and with the amount of CS around this days it dies surprisingly easy and only does 4-5 damage in combat, not great. Again my style is very different so it might work for you. The list seems solid to me

 

[Labarna]

I still don't like the ABF myself, too expensive and with the amount of CS around this days it dies surprisingly easy and only does 4-5 damage in combat, not great. Again my style is very different so it might work for you. The list seems solid to me

It only idea, I stay with my improved 2 formations list.

Could you, in a few sentences, describe main points of your style? I red many times all your reports, but I am not sure, if I understand it completely.

 

[Itepixcauh]

It only idea, I stay with my improved 2 formations list.

Could you, in a few sentences, describe main points of your style? I red many times all your reports, but I am not sure, if I understand it completely.

Of course. It's hard to put it into words but I'm usually very aggressive, I like to force my opponents to make moves when they are not ready for them. If YOU decide when and where they charge you or when they turn to face you etc, then YOU are basically playing both sides of the game.

I like to put my opponents into positions where they have to choose between two or three options that in the end all benefit me, it's a game of calculated risks. If you know how many damage on average an enemy might deal then you can prepare for it and be "sure" if your unit is going to die or not. Of course dice can turn on you but as I've said, it's a calculated risk, on average most of the times it's going to go your way.

I also try to focus on the objective, over all things. I will most of the time know that half of my army is going to die and when but they die for a reason, mostly delaying a much larger or dangerous force for most of the game or even for the whole game. A good example of that is in the upcoming battle report I'm writing right now.

Tl;DR version:

- Take the initiative, be the one that decides when things happen
- Learn to calculate fast what units can do on average and use that information to your advantage
- Dictate the flow of the game by giving the opponent choices that all benefit you
- Assume the worst is going to happen and plan accordingly, that way you will be prepared if it does happen.