7th Ed. CoC and dark elf CoC?

[Revered_Guardian]

Why is it that when we are practically the same in all respects (except the fact that they have lances and a T of 3) do our cold ones cost 8 points more? They have LD 9 which practically counteracts cold blooded, with lances they'll pierce armour just as well, and they have the same armour and attacks as us....

So why are they so cheap in comparison? They have more WS, More I, and Hatred!!!!

 

[Dumbledore]

Ours are actually less stupid with 89.4% passing as opposed to 83.3%. I guess you can say that ours are a bit tougher, and easier to use. With DE it takes arguably more skill to use your CO's as their army is all about breaking things quickly, whereas with LM you can park an enemy unit for 3 turns with some TG or saurus spears to the front, then leisurely flank them with your CO's in that time.

Obviously this is all theory-hammer, but I must confess when I first opened the DE armybook I was very suprised to see that low cost. Oh, and our CO can grind but theirs can't nearly as well (drops to S3)

 

[Elmquasmash]

just as a side note until i get the new rulebook, is there still a heavy cav rule reducing movement by an inch for wearing heavy armor?

Now, leadership 9 is no where as good as 8 with cold blooded statistically. And the higher tough gives a better staying power against most normal troops which, for the cost of the models, is a pretty big advantage. I agree that they shouldnt be AS cheap as they are, especially since they are elves with strength 4?? That doesnt even make sense And remember that we are getting one extra attack from our saurus.. Thats the difference of 5 strength 6 attacks or 10 strength 5 attacks.. I'd rather have the 10

And dumbledore, how is it that their strength drops to three? I was only checking their stats on the GW website (have the 6th edi book but i dont know where) and it says they have a base strength of 4

 

[Revered_Guardian]

wow, I didn't realize they only had 1 attacks, I could have swore they had 2...

 

[Elmquasmash]

aye, dark elves are puny little weaklings :K Lizzies rule the whole damn planet!!

you may be thinking about the extra attack from the mounts, which we have as well

 

[Dumbledore]

Yeah I presumed that they had two attacks like black guard, but was wrong. Also thought they were S3 with lances, not S4 - meaning they actually get S6 on the charge. Ho hum.
never liked relying on stupidity anyway

 

[Revered_Guardian]

well were at it, can people tell me just what black guard can do? Other than 2 attacks, I havent heard much....

 

[Elmquasmash]

Well, they have one less strength but they have halberds which, with elf initiative, are multiple strength 4 attacks (black guard only have str 3) that are more likely to go first over any lizardmen... dumb old ones making us slow in the brain... They are also stubborn and immune to psych.. They also have a warrior elite special rule as they are the witch king's right hand men but until i find my book i cant tell you what that is

 

[Dumbledore]

Yeah they're ws5 2 attacks S4 I6 Ld9 stubborn ItP and can re-roll any failed roll to hit (warrior elite). They aren't too expensive either, and can take the ASF banner. They are pretty fragile though, T3 and only heavy armour.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

wow, and here I thought they would be worse than tg! Few!

...Hey, I just thought of something....

Can assassins lurk in units like harpies and cavalry? wouldn't that make cold ones uber awesome?????

Or what units CAN they be in?

 

[strewart]

Assassins can only be in infantry units, I believe that involves.... Their shadow warrior equivelant, but not harpies.

As to the points cost, mostly summed up above. Extra attack for the LM is quite huge, and cold blooded is better than you think, plus better toughness for the LM. On top of all this, you really cannot compare units from one army to the next. Everything fits into its own army in its own way and some things would arguably cost more points in one army than another simply because they would be more useful to that army. Fast cavalry for Dwarfs, as an example, would need to be very expensive because it would really add a new dimension to the army. Imagine being march-blocked by Dwarfs while they sat back and shot you....

Beyond this, also remember that every army book has a different author and thus a different idea on what things are worth. And some units just are more balanced than others.

 

[Elmquasmash]

Beyond this, also remember that every army book has a different author and thus a different idea on what things are worth. And some units just are more balanced than others.

Exactly, like the author of our army book didnt believe in spell check.. Or good fluff stories...

 

[strewart]

And the author of the last HE book didn't believe in fluff writing at all - every piece of fluff in the book is just ripped from 1st-4th ed books and he didn't even bother to include history from the last 5 or so years like the Albion campaign, Storm of Chaos and Eltharion the Blind. But I'm not bitter or anything....

 

[Tenno]

yeah some army books seem to be batter then others, which is y im kinda worried about my skaven getting redone >< the book is brilliant and the army is fine the way it is. dont get me wrong im exsited and all. they already ruined the new clanrat models so its off to a bad start

 

[Barotok]

But if they don't come out with a new book, they won't make any money from players having to buy it, and the new models.

I know that this is a tough sell, but on the issue of DE vs. LM Cold Ones and their respective riders, I believe that some points balancing goes into the army as well. Basically this means that you could have a unit that is exactly the same in another army book with two different points costs. This is because the lists require different amounts of points to stay balanced and somewhat fair.

Once again, this is somewhat a shot in the dark at something that is already heavily discussed over multiple incarnations of the game. I'd like to think that's why the DE Cold Ones are so much cheaper. The DE need that unit to help keep them balanced.

 

[strewart]

I know that this is a tough sell, but on the issue of DE vs. LM Cold Ones and their respective riders, I believe that some points balancing goes into the army as well. Basically this means that you could have a unit that is exactly the same in another army book with two different points costs. This is because the lists require different amounts of points to stay balanced and somewhat fair.

Once again, this is somewhat a shot in the dark at something that is already heavily discussed over multiple incarnations of the game. I'd like to think that's why the DE Cold Ones are so much cheaper. The DE need that unit to help keep them balanced.

On top of all this, you really cannot compare units from one army to the next. Everything fits into its own army in its own way and some things would arguably cost more points in one army than another simply because they would be more useful to that army. Fast cavalry for Dwarfs, as an example, would need to be very expensive because it would really add a new dimension to the army. Imagine being march-blocked by Dwarfs while they sat back and shot you....

Yep, I preemptively agree. Not so tough to sell I believe.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Thank god assassins cant lurk in Coc! that would be soooooo horrible!!!

...They have killing blow and poison right? And I hear that they can take magic items even thought they aren't heroes....Im scared for my scar vets life

 

[strewart]

Don't worry about your scar-vet, these things can easily bring down the majority of lords and your expensive BSB will have no chance. I believe they also have ASF so HE are not immune. I have no idea what GW were thinking to be honest, for them to not even be a hero choice and having options to tool them to destroy almost any heros/lords in the game for not that many points... Ah well, you deal with them as best you can.

I wonder what the upcoming Skaven assassins will be like, they are meant to be (fluff) better. Anyway this is a bit off topic.

 

[Eternity_Warden]

Don't worry about your scar-vet, these things can easily bring down the majority of lords and your expensive BSB will have no chance. I believe they also have ASF so HE are not immune. I have no idea what GW were thinking to be honest, for them to not even be a hero choice and having options to tool them to destroy almost any heros/lords in the game for not that many points... Ah well, you deal with them as best you can.

*chanting*

CHAK-AX! CHAK-AX!
CHAK-AX! CHAK-AX!
CHAK-AX! CHAK-AX!
CHAK-AX! CHAK-AX!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....................................

 

[Wolf]

Thank god assassins cant lurk in Coc! that would be soooooo horrible!!!

...They have killing blow and poison right? And I hear that they can take magic items even thought they aren't heroes....Im scared for my scar vets life

They don't have killing blow standard, but they can get it as an upgrade for 30pts. They do have poisoned attacks and always strikes first.