7th Ed. Chameleon skinks vs Terradons.

[Grifthin]

So in my ongoing quest to find the ideal warmachine hunter for my army I had a look at chameleon skinks.

You can get 10 of the little buggers for the price of 4 Terradons. Now I was wondering - with their jungle poisons rule - isn't it perhaps a better idea to use them to pick off warmachines and their crew than the Terradons. I mean most warmachines are T7 arn't they ? So with jungle poisons we still wound on a 6 to hit. As far as I know warmachines don't have a armor save - wouldn't it be better to use these little guys then ?

 

[strewart]

Warmachines fit into the rare category of 'unliving' things (which does not include undead) thus they are immune to poison.

 

[Caneghem]

Either terradons or chameleons should work fine, since you are looking to take out crew rather than the machine itself. The S4 rock has a 1/6 chance of wounding the machine when it hits, which isn't really enough to count on. Personally speaking, I would use chameleon skinks against warmachines first if the opportunity arose. The situation may not come up as quickly unless you have terrain to scout behind.

My thinking is... warmachines are pretty much static, they aren't going anywhere. If you run both terradons and chameleons, the terradons should be flying over some fast annoying unit and wiping it out with the rocks. The chameleons can get right up in the face of warmachines and block their line of sight, and they don't have too much to worry about from counter-fire if lined up well. Anything needing BS to hit will take a -2 penalty, so they are pretty much wasting shots. Annoying bolt throwers come to mind. They can also move and double-shoot at long range, which is quite handy. If you pick off two of the crew, they have a decent enough shot at winning combat or killing the last bugger, since crew don't tend to be very resilient.

I don't know that I'd ever run 10 of them together though, seems like a lot of points.

 

[strewart]

I wouldn't be worried at all about warmachine crew posing a threat to either charmeleons or terradons in combat... You are immediately 1 point up for outnumber, just a matter of trying to get that kill or two and wipe them. Terradons should be able to easily with their combined s3 and s4 attacks, and the number of charmeleons compared to crew should allow them to win. Remember, even if they manage to score a kill and you do nothing, the combat is a draw and at the very least you have silenced that warmachine from shooting in the next turn. If you end up stuck in combat the whole game with nothing happening, you have still stopped it shooting which is the point of terradons/charmeleons.

 

[Grifthin]

Well 10 Chameleons are the same points as 4 terradons.
And If they are in cover it's -3 to hit the little buggers.
How effective would they be vs Dwarf crew though is the question.

 

[Caneghem]

Well 10 Chameleons are the same points as 4 terradons.
And If they are in cover it's -3 to hit the little buggers.
How effective would they be vs Dwarf crew though is the question.

Not very effective, but then neither would the Terradons be. The smallest unit that can tackle a dwarf warmachine with a near-certain victory rate is a skink/krox small cohort. All you have to manage to do is kill one dwarf, and you will auto-break them because of the Krox's US 3 fear (unless of course they have an engineer joined to the machine, in which case you need to kill 2). The minimum size of this cohort is 10sk/1krox for 105 points. And of course, you still have to cross the table to get the threat in their face. However, you might find dwarf warmachines the only thing worth going after with your fairly light cohorts. Against dwarves, terradons are best used to nail those lines of quarrellers and thunderers.

So either chameleon skinks or terradons can charge a warmachine and keep it tied up for a while. However it is important to remember that terries serve in a ton of other important and more "mobile" roles in the army, and the thought of having a unit of them tied up for one or two turns in a warmachine combat makes me cringe. Think about it, a unit that can always move 20 inches not moving even for one turn is sub-optimal. If you have chameleons (preferably less than 10 though!) they can scout and get to a machine in probably two turns.

The rare case it might actually be a good idea to charge WM with the terradons (given the option of chams or terries) is against Dwarf Anvil armies. Your terradons being in combat is the only way to protect them from Wrath and Ruin, and believe me when I say terradons make a very juicy target since they aren't allowed to fly for a turn after they are hit. A warmachine combat is the "safest" place for them in this situation.

Handy bolt-thrower or stone thrower tactic. Chameleons advance to point-blank range and spread out, making a line in front of the machine. Once you are close enough, you will block out all useful line of sight for the warmachine, whilst keeping the chameleons very safe. Bolt throwers will be at a -2 penalty to hit the little guys, and will kill a max of 1. I personally like those odds compared to hand to hand combat, plus the skinks will be dishing out 2 shots each, hitting on 4+ poison on 6 (once you've set up at close range). Stone throwers also have a minimum guess range of 12 inches, so they won't really be able to shoot at all in retaliation. As with all things, good judgement is required as to when to use this and when to just go for the charge.

Stubborn dwarf crews (of bolt throwers or grudge throwers) would probably be best tackled this way by the chameleons. Stubborn means the skinks will probably have to kill them all anyway, they might as well kill them with a favorable shooting advantage.

 

[Aranigej]

Good observation and useful tactics you got there Caneghem.

As regards to the chameleon/terradon issue, I have always had different roles for each. I personally do not like charging with chameleons and shooting with them on warmachines is a bit of a waste due to the probability of hitting the machine. Having said this, if there are no juicier targets then it is worth having a shot but I much prefer to take out fast cavalry, monsters or reduce a rank or two from an important unit.

I find terradons, on the other hand, to be well adapted to take out warmachine crew (granted that dwarfs are a prob here) and missile troops. Also, due to their versatility you can count on them to be where you want them to be (unless they get shot first or decide to head for the nearest table edge).

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Yes...I have neither in my army... I have instead my skink "assassin" (FSOD with 2 hand weapons)

however I haven't tried him yet and in the end I may opt for my favourite fluff and modelwise unit in the lizardmen army-the chameleon skinks.

I have always loved chameleons and the skink rock, now that regular skinks can't scout the chameleons actually have a slight advantage over them, and bs 4 with blowpipes is NOT a thing to mock at... well see how it goes though... playing a game tonight so all of you should stay tuned for my 3rd battle report!!!