8th Ed. Chakax and when to use him?

[SilverFaith]

I've tried the special characters we have available at least once, because I wanted to give them a shot and see what they can do. Most of them holds up pretty well, but two of them are less than optimal. Tiktaq'to is only worth bringing if your opponent allows him to join units (which he can't, RAW), and Chakax...

I honestly don't know what to do with him.

He is pretty bad, statwise. He is obscenely expensive for a 3+ armour save, and a 5+ wardsave that only works in challenges, and a basic scarvet statline. What he brings that are unique, is:

- Grants ASL to his enemy in a challenge.
- Rerolls all to-hit in a challenge
- Scouts can't deploy within 20" of him, and he auto-reveals invisible units within the same radius
- If he hits with his weapon, he can destroy a random magic item on a 5+. You can only get 1 attempt at this per combat round at most - more than 1 hit doesn't give you additional rolls.
- He grants unbreakable to his unit, if it contains Temple guards and a model with the Mage-Priest Palanquinn special rule.


Now, he is clearly a challenge-centered character. Against anything with ASF, he will still be last, and with only a 3+/5++ save and 2 wounds, most characters made for close combat, challenges or not, will eat him alive. For his cost, this is pretty absurd, since I could kit out a far more survivable AND powerful oldblood for less than his cost.

His ability to destroy weapons is a toss-up, and not something I'd ever rely on. If someone is carrying around a single powerful magic item, you still only have 1/3 chance of destroying it, because you are very likely to score at least 1 hit with his rerolls. Still, it's too unreliable to be worth much. I'd rather just throw Arcane unforging on something, because you WILL have a Slann, because...

His unbreakable only works if in a temple guard unit which carries a slann. This brings the minimum unit cost to 710 points. Minimum, meaning only 10 TGs, and a naked slann. Unbreakable is pointless in this unit, because mosts things will chew through it in a matter of seconds anyway. Bringing 30 with FC and a kitted out Slann will bumb the total price up to almost 1150 points.

One also has to keep in mind that the unit wasn't exactly prone to fleeing before, either, as it usually have stubborn. Give the Slann a banner of discipline, and he has Ld10 coldblodded + rerolls on stubborn. That's pretty much unbreakable to begin with, and for only 40 points, rather than the obscene pricetag Chakax has. Worse, unbreakable means you can't put characters that aren't unbreakable in the unit. Kroak also grants Unbreakable, but at a reasonable price, ON TOP OF IGNORING MISCASTS, which makes him a far safer, and cheaper, choice.

So what does he actually bring that justifies his cost? When would you realistically use him? In what situation would he ever be worth bringing? No matter the situation, I just can't see him bring anything worthwhile to the table.

Any ideas?

EDIT: Just thought of something when reading his profile, he IS useful for something: He has a light armour and a magic helmet which improves his armour save by 1. Proof that helmets and armours do in fact stack, despite how some people insist armours and helmets can't be worn at the same time

 

[n810]

7th edition Chakax was a lot better.

back then the FAQ said ...
CHAKAX ALLWAYS STRIKES FIRST!
(even out side of challanges or against ASF)

 

[SilverFaith]

Odd they decided to make him ASL and grant the enemy ASL instead. ASF would at least have ensured he struck at the same time. The current rules make him death-on-contact against most elves and vampires kitted out for combat.

I would probably have given him a chance if he was 2/3 of his current price.... or maybe not, considering he'd still be quite expensive for some pretty minor buffs.

I could see him be useful against an empire character with the stat-switcharoo shenanigans they have going, but that seems a bit overly specific. His statline is okay, but his special rules is what makes him scary. Even if he is reduced to S+T3, and the enemy suddenly have S+T5, he still has a fair chance, striking at the same time as him, wounding on 4s, rerolling to hit, a 5+/5++ save, and a chance to destroy that annoying piece of magic gear.

But again, too specific. I had hoped he could fill out a more general role, but as it is, if I wanted an unbreakable TG unit, I would much rather bring Kroak, or just throw an ordinary Slann in there with BSB banner of discipline. It isn't Unbreakable, but it might as well be.

 

[Xlanax_lot]

The answer is simple! Unless you want to field him for fluff or for fun Dont field him at all he is way to expensive for what he does, a beter option is GorRok he is a beast! Or just kit out an oldblod for combat that dhould also do the trick

 

[NexS1]

I've thought on this too. I love Chakax's model and his fluff and his unique rules, but he is too expensive.

Sometimes I don't mind disadvantaging myself.

I find he works well in low-point games (i had good success with him in a 2k game) and probably isn't very good against elves (though, with a little bit of magic, he can be quite hardy).

Light and Life are good for him, like all saurus.


The other thing that he allows that Kroak does not, is that you may put another character in the TG/Slann/Chakax unit while it is unbreakable, whereas Kroak does not. Which gives you options.

 

[SilverFaith]

The unbreakable rule and putting characters in there is... dubious at best, and feels like rulesbending to me.

Either way, I ran him anyway (because I really wanted to try him out). Went to my local group, asked around, and someone agreed to a friendly match - he had some dark elves to try out.

My immediate thought was "Elves where the ONE THING" I didn't want to face.

By turn 2, it was "HELLO SHADOWBLADE, SAY HELLO TO MY SAURUS COWBOY BUS"

My god, that 20" reveal bubble did a huge number on his assassin. I don't think he earned back his points, but knowing the local of the assassin threw his entire tactics revolving that entire unit out of the window.

He isn't "bad", per say - I got up in a challenge against a standard hero, and did reasonably well - no armour ignoring stuff here, so despite him hitting first, his feeble S3 VS t5 and 3+/5++ made it too difficult to break through, and when he did cause a wound, he got a quick apothesis, and ended the fight the following combat phase, breaking the offending unit.

He's "okay", but a bit too circumstancial for my liking.

 

[lordkingcrow]

Myself and some of my fellow gaming group have been trying to figure out why people don't think Tiktaq'to can join a unit. He's riding a monstrous cavalry mount, not a monster. Maybe I'm missing something, but here is what I read in the warhammer rule book under Monstrous Cavalry Mount (Page 105): "Very rarely, a character will have the option to ride a monstrous beast. In this case, the whole model is treated as having the troop type 'monstrous cavalry' and follows all the rules for both characters and monstrous cavalry models. It's worth noting (as the wording is rather similar) that the rules for Ridden Monsters do not apply to monstrous cavalry mounts- they are two distinct troops types."

Under Ridden Monsters (page 105 as well) it states: "If a character has a ridden monster, the whole model is treated as having the troop type monster and thus follows all the rules for both characters and monster models. A character on a ridden monster cannot join other units."

I then look under Tiktaq'to and see that he is considered "monstrous cavalry" not "Monster". Now this seems to specifically cover the issues, so I'm forced to ask, what am I missing?

 

[NexS1]

The unbreakable rule and putting characters in there is... dubious at best, and feels like rulesbending to me.

Without having the book on-hand, the rules say something like:

While Chakax is in a unit of Temple Guard and a model with the Mage-priest palanquin special rule, then all models in the combined unit gain the unbreakable special rule.

 

[Pinktaco]

He should've been 185pts like some of the other heroes. Even then he's questionable. He's there to take a challenge and save the frog, but that's just super situational to begin with.

 

[heuningby]

Myself and some of my fellow gaming group have been trying to figure out why people don't think Tiktaq'to can join a unit. He's riding a monstrous cavalry mount, not a monster. Maybe I'm missing something, but here is what I read in the warhammer rule book under Monstrous Cavalry Mount (Page 105): "Very rarely, a character will have the option to ride a monstrous beast. In this case, the whole model is treated as having the troop type 'monstrous cavalry' and follows all the rules for both characters and monstrous cavalry models. It's worth noting (as the wording is rather similar) that the rules for Ridden Monsters do not apply to monstrous cavalry mounts- they are two distinct troops types."

Under Ridden Monsters (page 105 as well) it states: "If a character has a ridden monster, the whole model is treated as having the troop type monster and thus follows all the rules for both characters and monster models. A character on a ridden monster cannot join other units."

I then look under Tiktaq'to and see that he is considered "monstrous cavalry" not "Monster". Now this seems to specifically cover the issues, so I'm forced to ask, what am I missing?

The clause is under flying units. It says that characters can't join units with the flying special rule.

 

[SilverFaith]

The clause is under flying units. It says that characters can't join units with the flying special rule.

It even goes the other way as well - they dedicate TWO paragraphs to explain that no unit can join a flying character, and also that no character can join a flying unit.

I still feel that common sense should kick in and say "But a flying character can obviously join a flying unit!", but common sense or not, you are still breaking the rules as it currently is, if you put tiktaq in a unit.

Most people will allow you to houserule it so you can use him in a unit, because he is clearly meant to be used like that. No way would his rules be written like that otherwise.

As for Chakax, I'm actually pretty sure 185 points would be a far more reasonable pricetag for his kit. He isn't there as a character killer, nor is he there to kill hordes of enemies. He grants utility, and that's something he does very well. If you want an unbreakable block for your slann (A lot of people aren't content with a 99% chance of success), as well as someone to reveal those pesky invisible assassins, and also help reduce the killing power of some of the worst blenders in the game (Vampire lords without ASF does significantly less damage than one with it - those rerolls are far from pointless on a high S character with lots of attacks). Even better, if he manages to hit, he might get lucky and destroy a valuable magic item the enemy has - Imagine taking out a Runefang or another of the 80+ point magic items. That will hurt any characters value quite nicely.

If you want a dedicated tank for your slann, look elsewhere. Likewise, if you want someone that can kill everything in CC, this isn't a choice for you. The problem he currently has, is that he costs WAY too much for a character whose primary function is utility.

At 185, he'd be well worth the points.