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7th Ed. Blade of realities

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dirtydan17

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Blade of realities questions

1) for combat res, like killing blow? kill a four wound monster in one hit, +4 to CR?

2) against units, oldblood touches three models, does four hits, four failed LD, does that kill four of them? More importantly, against ogre sized models, would four hits be potential for four kills or would I have to direct my attacks against each ogre? and furthermore, if I hit an unwounded ogre would i have to cause four hits for the hits to spill over?

If it cannot kill more ogres than im in base to base with, i need clarification on how it works
 
1. Yep, +4 combat res.

2. You can kill more than you can touch because more are assumed to move in. The part where contact matters is if only 1 or 2 of your models are touching the enemy (you got flanked or something) then only they can attack. So you can kill 4 enemies.

Interesting with the ogres... With multi-wound units, you cannot spread the wounds between several models you need to kill one if possible. I'd say since the ld tests happen in the to hit phase, and they do indeed mean instant kill, sure as many ogres die as failed leadership tests. After that, the successful ones get wounded as normal.
 
Did we ever determine what happens when you hit a warmachine with the BoR?
 
I don't believe so. I am inclined to think that no Ld value = auto fail, but I am sure the people on the other end of the warmachine (especially in the case of those Skaven ones) would disagree.
 
Thanks alot for the clarification

I will now proceed to pimp that out with maybe the CoJW
 
I've heard that multi-unit models (such as a chariot) will test off its Ld for something like the BoR ld test. And the Screaming bell has a Rat Ogre who comes with the points and is part of the model/unit so you'd probably have to test off his Ld. Luckily its probably pretty crappy and you only need one failed test to instantly kill the whole thing.

With warmachines, the crew are seperate models, so I think warmachines auto-fail the Ld test.

:D
 
Yeah, I think Rat Ogres have LD 5... either way, it's probably the easiest way to kill it.
 
"With warmachines, the crew are seperate models, so I think warmachines auto-fail the Ld test."

I'd say cannons and other normal warmachines wouldn't be hurt by the BoR, since there is no "soul" inside the cannon. Exceptions are of course "combined model" warmachines like those in the new skaven book, where the crew are wrapped up as a single model and they share wounds. The hellcannon DOES have a soul, and so has its own leadership. I think the idea is that inanimate objects can't really fail leadership tests. A cannon with no crew can't fail a panic or terror test, it just sits there.

If a model has its own wounds but no leadership, and no part of the model has a leadership value, then it can't be touched by leadership based attacks. I guess you could say it is the exception to the rule that you automatically fail statistic tests for which your stat is 0.
 
That would only make sense if games workshop made all the fluff make sense. Regardless of the item description saying it kills the enemies soul, the thing your attacking doesn't have to have a soul for it to be affected.
 
Yeah... I mean, it still works on undead even though they don't have souls right? Quote a page number and I will believe you.
 
once the crew is dead or has fled in cc you just destroy the machine anyway by overrunning or pursuit or w/e

a chariot, including its crew and the creatures pulling it, are considered to be a single model in the same way as a cavalry or monster model. (pp62, skull pass rules) so it has only one Ld value. characters have their own ld and continue to fight on foot if chariot is destroyed
 
Regular warmachine without a Ld: Nope, insta-kill won't work, the things just won't give a damn about some stray Saurus guy poking it with a magical blade of sorts eating your soul.
But you can still bash it normally.

Warmachine with a Ld: It is quiet obvious that you can kill it via a failed leadership really...

Undead: I think that rather than eating the soul of these guys it eats the magical energy that makes them "live". In my opinion that magical energy is a replacement for their soul. Besides, souls are magical anyway...

Take it or leave it, but that's how I see it and I sure can't see anyone complaining.

Cheers!
 
Surely when you charge a warmachine (i.e. an Empire cannon) you just attack the crew so can't actually attack the cannon itself.

But with no crew means no fired cannon.
 
"Yeah... I mean, it still works on undead even though they don't have souls right?"

"Undead: I think that rather than eating the soul of these guys it eats the magical energy that makes them "live". In my opinion that magical energy is a replacement for their soul. Besides, souls are magical anyway..."

I think it makes perfect sense with undead. Once you see the abyssmal leadership of 2 on a zombie, it becomes obvious that the "soul", or whatever has been inserted as a replacement, is only attached by the most tenuous of threads. I guess there will always be animists contending that cannons, rocks, and trees have souls.

Nobody here I think would consider charging an Oldblood into a warmachine on a regular basis, since we have plenty of support units to do just that. What started this was the screaming bell/plague furnace coming back into play with the new Skaven book. Unfortunately for us, for these two massive constructs the unit with them is the thing that animates it, much like a gun crew. The screaming bell does have a rat ogre crew, but it is conspicuously missing a Ld score, probably in an attempt to avoid this sort of discussion. Auto-destroying these models is a bit too good, which is the main reason I don't see it happening, aside from fluff. GW could always astound us with some arbitrary solution that has not yet been conceived.

Send your OB with BoR after doomwheels and abominations, or if charging the screaming bell have the Carnosaur simply eat it with its str7 D3 wounds. Meanwhile, your OB should evaporate the Ld7 Gray Seer, who can only hide if he refuses a challenge (don't challenge).
 
Hey guys,

So sorry bout the threadomancy, but i had a relevant experience just several days ago. I sent my oldblood screaming at an empire steam tank... hoping for some no armor save wounds...

Then i realized, it had no leadership... and was really surprised to not see it mentioned on this here forums, because i tend to face the huge terror causer/cannon/point denial on a regular basis.

any insights on this? I had to play it as normal str 5 hits last game.... but is really curious what other LM players think.

sorry if its been mentioned elsewhere... didnt really want to start a new thread just for this.
 
You guys might want to check out the ruling on BoR vs the Bell
in the new Skaven FAQ. ;)


(Basicly it rules that LD- = LD0)
 
if an atribute has a value of 0 any test related to sed atribute automatically fail. as the above poster said Ld - = Ld 0. BoR kinda sweeps through steam tanks and warmachines [after the crew is dead]. possibly the empire war altar aswell :D. dual Stank + altar list doesn't seem so threatening to LM, but in a tournament enviroment i doubt anyone would bring an oldblood with the BoR... what a shame
 
Unfortunately the Steam Tank has a special rule concerning characteristic tests.

"A Steam Tank will automatically pass any characteristic test it is required to make, with the exception of Initiative tests, which it automatically fails (not being too good at dodging)."

For the war altar, I think you would test at the Ld5 of the warhorse pulling it, which is pretty sweet and a good way to make sure to take it down.
 
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