AoS AoS2 - Double Toad

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

I know the rules aren't even all out yet, but I wanted to make a list or two, so here are my thoughts.

Also note that these are mainly fun lists and may or may not be competitively viable.

For 2k:

Slann, 260, maybe General
Kroak, 450, maybe General
Eternity Warden,140
Astrolith Bearer, 160

Shadowstrike, 180 now, with:
Starpriest, 80
40 Skinks, 240
10 Skinks, 60
6 Terradon Riders, 240

10 Skinks, 60, Battleline tax.


Those are 1870 points.
With the 130 points left we buy:
Balewind Vortex, 40
Chronomantic Cogs, 60
Quicksilver Swords, 20

10 points left. You could also leave the Swords out and get a Palisade instead for exactly 2k. But I think the swords might put more stress on the enemy.

Tactics:
Deploy both toads outside of 30" if possible, put some Skinks and the Warden near for protection.
The Starpriest casts the Cogs behind the two Slann (can not be dispelled if the enemy cannot see them), and the Slann or Kroak summons the BWV.
One of the toads can also use the Cogs.

The Eternity Warden combined with Look Out Sir and the rerolls from the Cogs and the BWV's cover buff make the Slann quite sturdy, especially if you put an additional artefact or spell on them for protection.

So now you have the choice between magic heavy and summoning heavy, or a balance between the two.

Because of the bataillon you have two command points, so you can use both Kroak's and the Slann's command ability if you wish. If you are facing a shooting army you should probably use the Slann's for the reroll.

You should try to change the constellation to the magic buff with the Slann. If that fails you can save using Kroak's ability but you probably don't need to, because if you use the Slann for summoning you don't need to cast spells, so no risk.
You can also use the rerolls for the summoning points of the Astrolith if necessary, or if you mess up the cast roll for the Cogs or BWV.


Quicksilver Swords have a good range if used with the Astrolith near and/or using the BWV so you can cast them into enemy territory (10" + 8" from the Astrolith and 6" from the BWV. Then 8" move). But remember to keep them a bit away from the point you will put your Shadowstrike to work.

Then bomb with Kroak and summon with the Slann for defense and objective grabbing.

Do the usual thing with the Shadowstrike.


...or... you know... put Kroak onto the BWV and teleport him somewhere to get the old Kroaknado working. The cool thing about it is: your enemy doesn't know what will happen.

But wait, there's more!

You could leave the Cogs out and use the Umbral Spell Portal instead. That way you can cast Kroak's spells through the portal and wreck your enemies.

That's it for now. I will post a few more ideas soon. Feel free to do the same.

 

[Joshua Horchler]

This is a dumb question, but can you use multiple Slann and have them both summon?

 

[Burwinkelito]

This is a dumb question, but can you use multiple Slann and have them both summon?

No, only the general may give up on casting to get celestial conjuration points.

 

[skipperyoss]

Honestly just one is enough. It takes a turn to summon the endless spells then you just summon units or with Kroak kill stuff. I prefer the Slann due to his points cost and the constellation buff. However Kroak is better due to more spells and doing more damage.

 

[Aginor]

Honestly just one is enough. It takes a turn to summon the endless spells then you just summon units or with Kroak kill stuff. I prefer the Slann due to his points cost and the constellation buff. However Kroak is better due to more spells and doing more damage.

You might have to dispel enemy Endless Spells (or your own! If you don't go second the enemy controls your spells), you might want to cast spells for protection, and you might have to recast the endless spells that get dispelled by the enemy.

That was the basic idea for the double toad. One Slann can spend all his spells for summoning, every round. The other one does all the magic stuff. I used Kroak for this example but a second Slann might also be an option.
What I like about Kroak is that his command ability (which can now be used even though he isn't the general!) is pretty good for making sure your rolls are more reliable, and his spells hit pretty hard (until GW changes his warscroll).

 

[Joshua Horchler]

No, only the general may give up on casting to get celestial conjuration points.

Thanks. That's what I thought. Also, your picture is great haha.

I like the idea behind double toad. I do think your list may struggle with defense, but you would have to play it out. I feel like it's hard to fully understand Seraphon lists now until all of us play with Summoning for awhile, especially a list that is built around getting 12+ points a round.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Would you not stick Kroak on the BWV and use him to cast his spells and sit a Slann in cover to generate points.

 

[Aginor]

Would you not stick Kroak on the BWV and use him to cast his spells and sit a Slann in cover to generate points.

That depends on whether you want to put the focus more on summoning or more on magic. A Slann with BWV and using the Cogs can use five spells to create a total of 15+1+d3 summoning points.

 

[Crowsfoot]

That depends on whether you want to put the focus more on summoning or more on magic. A Slann with BWV and using the Cogs can use five spells to create a total of 15+1+d3 summoning points.

True but the damage output from Kroak makes the investment in points worth it

 

[skipperyoss]

You might have to dispel enemy Endless Spells (or your own! If you don't go second the enemy controls your spells), you might want to cast spells for protection, and you might have to recast the endless spells that get dispelled by the enemy.

That was the basic idea for the double toad. One Slann can spend all his spells for summoning, every round. The other one does all the magic stuff. I used Kroak for this example but a second Slann might also be an option.
What I like about Kroak is that his command ability (which can now be used even though he isn't the general!) is pretty good for making sure your rolls are more reliable, and his spells hit pretty hard (until GW changes his warscroll).

But that's not every game. With even just a +1 from the banner you should get more spells off than your opponent, from the games I've played with the summoning at least it felt like it was always better to do that as most of the endless spells are bad. D3 mortal wounds here and -1 bravery isn't that impressive and even 2d3 or d6 damage is not very meaningful when you can summon in 20 Saurus warriors that same turn. I think Kroak is great as he does a ton of damage and he also can do a lot of summoning. He's very versatile now and not really the 1 trick pony he used to be.

I would save the 260 points and take a bastiladon, additionally drop the swords to fit it in as they are really bad unless you high roll.

 

[Aginor]

True but the damage output from Kroak makes the investment in points worth it

That depends on the spells.
Endless spells might not be worth it, others might. But if they end up not using the realms at tournaments (some people say that will happen) we will end up where we are now: casters available but nothing to cast.

And I am sure they will nerf Kroak back again using a FAQ to clarify that of course he can only cast his spell once.

 

[PJetski]

Even with Kroak giving up 6 spells per turn you're only getting 20-22 CC per turn, not enough to summon a big monster.
If you run this list you are guaranteed to give up objectives for the first turn, and from that point on you're summoning real units into play around the Slann and playing an uphill catchup battle...

 

[Aginor]

only getting 20-22 CC per turn, not enough to summon a big monster.

Not enough to do it in one turn.
But good enough for a Troglodon or a lot of Skinks.
And if you get a double turn you have the Monster. Or a lot of other stuff.

And why not claim objectives with some of the Skinks in turn one?

I am not saying you are wrong for a really competitive environment, I probably wouldn't play it there, but I don't see why that list wouldn't work well against many armies (for example against my Deathrattle).
The good thing about it is that you can react. That list (or a similar one) is able to adjust, many lists these days aren't.

 

[HolySalad]

I agree, being able to play rock paper scissors is a huge advantage.

 

[Slanntastic]

I like this a lot! It is only 4 drops so you have a decent chance of controlling turn 1. The shadow strike move and a run with the skinks means that you should be able to contest objectives on turn 1 and with the group of 40 most likely cap objectives if you end up going second. I think I would keep Kroak on the balewind and have the slann turn the cogs.

Two questions/thoughts: First why terradons instead of rippers? Especially since you cannot use the bombs on the turn you drop down? Is your thought just to use their shooting, charge, and then in the next turn retreat out over top of stuff and drop bombs?

Second, if you go heavy summoning (which I think I would), would you want the slann so far back? Summoned units have to set up wholly within 12" so if he is camping at the back of the board would it be bringing the summoned units on too far back to be effective?

On a semi-related note, what are people's thoughts on how many/which types of units to have available for summoning?

 

[Crowsfoot]

On a semi-related note, what are people's thoughts on how many/which types of units to have available for summoning?

I'm thinking skinks or Razordons but depends on what your facing I guess.

 

[Aginor]

Especially since you cannot use the bombs on the turn you drop down?

You can. Shadowstrike does not say that they cannot move afterwards. All abilities that count as movement for the movement phase say so in their description.

So you place them 9" away, move them 10" forward and then 4" back. You have overflown the enemy and are 3" away, which is a legal move. You drop all your bombs in the first turn. The enemy can only prevent that by bubble wrapping.
Edit: in fact you can even place them at 3" away initially. I set them up further away to prevent Gryph Hounds from alarming enemy ranged units. And since I play Bolas I have to end less than 5" away anyway.

I mainly prefer Terradons for style reasons though. Rippers are kinda ugly.

The idea behind keeping the summoning Slann back is this:
The enemy cannot prevent your summoning and in the next round you can walk or teleport the summoned units somewhere anyway. The summoned ones are mainly meant for defense and for claiming objectives in round 2 or later.