AoS AoS non monster hero tactic

[chefofwar]

This can be a two part question or together

I messed around using the sunblood and oldblood on foot in a random KC list.

1. General AoS thoughts on using small based combat heroes? played against a doombull and some smaller slaneesh heroes, but compared to bigger, "monster mounted heroes" they just seem so fragile? 6-7 wound level...

I guess the general tactic of making sure to charge them paired with larger blocks of units or have them bat clean up. They are not gonna clear a full strength enemy unit like a steg or carno could

2. Sunblood and oldblood (on foot) specific, are they just glorified buff priests? and then just suffer from needing to keep them super safe and not a front line attacker?

I know they are not optimal units, just messing around with stuff I dont really see in lists. and I made some cool looking models with spare parts...

 

[Tav]

Generally speaking, considering how the meta is, heroes with 7 or less wounds are hard to use since they can be killed off before you even use them for anything. i will always use an old blood on carnosaur over one on foot since you gain way more value than the points difference.

The foot heroes are basically just there to use a command ability. They don't do a whole lot of damage so you would avoid putting them in combat and with their slow speed they are difficult to both keep safe and be where they need to be.
I don't find the buffs gained from the on foot saurus heroes to be worth the cost of them, much better spending the points on starpriests and starseers

 

[Erta Wanderer]

This can be a two part question or together

I messed around using the sunblood and oldblood on foot in a random KC list.

1. General AoS thoughts on using small based combat heroes? played against a doombull and some smaller slaneesh heroes, but compared to bigger, "monster mounted heroes" they just seem so fragile? 6-7 wound level...

I guess the general tactic of making sure to charge them paired with larger blocks of units or have them bat clean up. They are not gonna clear a full strength enemy unit like a steg or carno could

2. Sunblood and oldblood (on foot) specific, are they just glorified buff priests? and then just suffer from needing to keep them super safe and not a front line attacker?

I know they are not optimal units, just messing around with stuff I dont really see in lists. and I made some cool looking models with spare parts...

1 despite appearances our foot heroes are more durable then their mounted versions due to a better save a smaller base and look out sir. over all foot heroes are weaker but also cheaper makeing them easier to fit in lists.

2 yes foot hearos are leaders not fighters with 2ish exceptions foot guys are just buff wagons

 

[Tyranitar]

I haven't used any of them but judging by the warscrolls they all seem bad in melee except maybe the Sunblood, whose CA is also pretty nice. I might try him in a KC list at some point

 

[MackiMac]

I once had a Sunblood (w/ KC artifact) beat up a unit of sequitors, it was glorious.

 

[Killer Angel]

1 despite appearances our foot heroes are more durable then their mounted versions due to a better save a smaller base and look out sir. over all foot heroes are weaker but also cheaper makeing them easier to fit in lists.

Not only that:
Hero on monster: primary target (buffs & heavy hitter), the oppo concentrates fire on it
Hero afoot: it's often seen as secondary target (the primary is the heavy hitter unit)

Let's put it this way: when i face a Orruk list with Goddrakk and a warchanter, i try to kill asap Goddrakk, despite the warchanter being able to perform some nasty trick.

 

[ILKAIN]

Not only that:
Hero on monster: primary target (buffs & heavy hitter), the oppo concentrates fire on it
Hero afoot: it's often seen as secondary target (the primary is the heavy hitter unit)

Let's put it this way: when i face a Orruk list with Goddrakk and a warchanter, i try to kill asap Goddrakk, despite the warchanter being able to perform some nasty trick.

maybe im weird, or bad lol, but I would try to tarpit the goddrakk and snipe the chanter.... goddrakk is scary but the damage buffs on a max size unit from the chanter are scarier to me.

 

[Killer Angel]

maybe im weird, or bad lol, but I would try to tarpit the goddrakk and snipe the chanter.... goddrakk is scary but the damage buffs on a max size unit from the chanter are scarier to me.

I could agree, but goddrakk is an immense buffer for all the army (i don't remember exactly how, but he generates whaagh points, right?)

 

[ILKAIN]

I could agree, but goddrakk is an immense buffer for all the army (i don't remember exactly how, but he generates whaagh points, right?)

im not savvy enough on the new orcs book to formulate a proper response to the WAAGH comment. I do know that as a general rule, sniping buffers works for me when the buffers are weaker than the buffs they provide. especially, if you can hold the opponents hammer at bay for one-two turns while you do it. just my $0.02

 

[Kilvakar]

Gordrakk generates extra Waaagh points and gets stronger every combat phase that he kills a model, so killing him is a high priority. He's also a massive chunk of their army points-wise. So if he charges you ahead of the rest of the army I personally focus all the fire on him. Otherwise, he'll be nigh-unstoppable after clearing your screens or tarpit unit you've sacrificed.

 

[Killer Angel]

Gordrakk generates extra Waaagh points and gets stronger every combat phase that he kills a model, so killing him is a high priority. He's also a massive chunk of their army points-wise. So if he charges you ahead of the rest of the army I personally focus all the fire on him. Otherwise, he'll be nigh-unstoppable after clearing your screens or tarpit unit you've sacrificed.

Practical example

 

[ILKAIN]

Gordrakk generates extra Waaagh points and gets stronger every combat phase that he kills a model, so killing him is a high priority. He's also a massive chunk of their army points-wise. So if he charges you ahead of the rest of the army I personally focus all the fire on him. Otherwise, he'll be nigh-unstoppable after clearing your screens or tarpit unit you've sacrificed.

I guess its a different view point. I don't view points comparisons removed by killing as the only way to "remove" those points. who cares if he builds 3 wounds and attacks over the three turns that one of your 30 man units tarred him for... they inflicted damage, and kept him from doing anything... effectively removing his (idk how many points he costs) for 1/2 the game. and its not like you aren't doing anything on the other side of the board while this is going on.

you see it all the time in movies, where the op hero is fighting his way to a big bad boss through a horde of nobodies, but he gets there just a little to late to do anything because of the time they bought. and yeah I get it that's a movie, but its also a valid real world tactic... if you cant easily destroy the enemies strong unit/tank/whatever, they you slow it down and render it combat ineffective in other ways.

Goddrack (and megaboss on mawcrusha in general) is a hard to kill unit, but it can only do so much for objective point scoring, and that still wins games. while your focusing more points on him to kill him then he is worth, over several turns, your opponent is using the points discrepancy on the other side of the board to overwhelm your harassing units, and score objectives... ala distraction fex strikes again.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I guess its a different view point. I don't view points comparisons removed by killing as the only way to "remove" those points. who cares if he builds 3 wounds and attacks over the three turns that one of your 30 man units tarred him for... they inflicted damage, and kept him from doing anything... effectively removing his (idk how many points he costs) for 1/2 the game. and its not like you aren't doing anything on the other side of the board while this is going on.

you see it all the time in movies, where the op hero is fighting his way to a big bad boss through a horde of nobodies, but he gets there just a little to late to do anything because of the time they bought. and yeah I get it that's a movie, but its also a valid real world tactic... if you cant easily destroy the enemies strong unit/tank/whatever, they you slow it down and render it combat ineffective in other ways.

Goddrack (and megaboss on mawcrusha in general) is a hard to kill unit, but it can only do so much for objective point scoring, and that still wins games. while your focusing more points on him to kill him then he is worth, over several turns, your opponent is using the points discrepancy on the other side of the board to overwhelm your harassing units, and score objectives... ala distraction fex strikes again.

This right here is why people don't use him. He takes up too much of your army and it's too easy to bog down.

 

[Killer Angel]

who cares if he builds 3 wounds and attacks over the three turns that one of your 30 man units tarred him for... they inflicted damage, and kept him from doing anything... effectively removing his (idk how many points he costs) for 1/2 the game. and its not like you aren't doing anything on the other side of the board while this is going on.

This right here is why people don't use him. He takes up too much of your army and it's too easy to bog down.

Well Goddrakk is a little more than 500 pts (so we're not looking at Nagash), and those 30 man units aren't for free, so you still have to deal with the remaining 1500 pts.
That said, Goddrakk buffs in a solid way the entire army, that's where its strenght lies.

However, i agree that:
- it costs too much for what it brings.
- it can be killed too easil for its points.

that's the main reason why i believe that killing Goddrakk is a better option than "bog it down". It's not hard to kill it and you remove all of its buffs (that you won't by just bogging it down)

 

[Kilvakar]

It also heavily depends on what list you're running. If you're playing fangs of sotek then great, you have plenty of extra bodies to swamp him with while you fight everything else. If you're playing koatl's claw or thunder lizard, or if you're running basically anything other than Skink spam you don't have the free sacrifices to feed him because your Knights, dinos, etc. need to put in work elsewhere.

 

[Lizerd]

Honestly one thing in AoS to point out, if you or an opponent wants to focus something down; more often than not they very much can do it. Generally the best way to keep a hero alive is keep it off the radar, hence erta's point about our foot heroes being more durable. Simply put; the less scared an opponent is of a hero (be they foot or monster) the less likely they are to die

 

[Killer Angel]

Honestly one thing in AoS to point out, if you or an opponent wants to focus something down; more often than not they very much can do it. Generally the best way to keep a hero alive is keep it off the radar, hence erta's point about our foot heroes being more durable. Simply put; the less scared an opponent is of a hero (be they foot or monster) the less likely they are to die

i totally agree

Hero on monster: primary target (buffs & heavy hitter), the oppo concentrates fire on it
Hero afoot: it's often seen as secondary target (the primary is the heavy hitter unit)