Got a friendly match against a high elf player coming up soon, he'll be running a character heavy list, but it wont include a dragon for some reason, and i wanted to get som pointers on do's and dont's against this cocky bugger^^.
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7th Ed. Anti Helf help
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Temple Guard
DonkeyHotep
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2 X 28 man blocks of saurus with mounted scar vets in them. Give one the Scimitar of the Sun resplendent and the other the maiming shield and the sword of battle. Don't like The mounts? Ditch em, armor save goes from 1+ to 3+ but you save some points and aren't stupid. (note that fear happens 20something % of the time even at LD 8, hit on 6's equals you win)
Activate blue eyes green slann in defense mode. Put him in a T.G. unit 20-26 men strong with the battle standard, the war banner, and the plaque of Dominion. Give him the Becalming cogitation, the Diadem of power, and 3 dispel scrolls, and never cast a spell with him.
These groups will pretty much ruin their day. You can support them with whatever you want after that, but I recommend very small skrox units, like 12 w/ krox. Just charge the elves, and direct all attacks at a wizard, including 2-3 skink attacks. He'll likely die. Then just flee, and if they run after you, the saurus are behind you and they'll end up hitting that, or maybe just getting uncomfortably close to the saurus. Saurus cavalry can sexually molest the weaker elf units, like spearmen, but are fairly vulnerable to those bolt throwers, and terradons aren't gonna cut it, since the bolt throwers can pound those guys.
Mostly, you don't need any more magic defense then that toad, and you can spend the points on more trash to soak his pews and bother him. Skinks and sallies preferably, but I recommend taking some kind of targeted elimination, because combined attacks with things like lion chariots will ruin your day.
Activate blue eyes green slann in defense mode. Put him in a T.G. unit 20-26 men strong with the battle standard, the war banner, and the plaque of Dominion. Give him the Becalming cogitation, the Diadem of power, and 3 dispel scrolls, and never cast a spell with him.
These groups will pretty much ruin their day. You can support them with whatever you want after that, but I recommend very small skrox units, like 12 w/ krox. Just charge the elves, and direct all attacks at a wizard, including 2-3 skink attacks. He'll likely die. Then just flee, and if they run after you, the saurus are behind you and they'll end up hitting that, or maybe just getting uncomfortably close to the saurus. Saurus cavalry can sexually molest the weaker elf units, like spearmen, but are fairly vulnerable to those bolt throwers, and terradons aren't gonna cut it, since the bolt throwers can pound those guys.
Mostly, you don't need any more magic defense then that toad, and you can spend the points on more trash to soak his pews and bother him. Skinks and sallies preferably, but I recommend taking some kind of targeted elimination, because combined attacks with things like lion chariots will ruin your day.
Chameleon Skink
The Lybithian
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Saurus warriors.
I play High Elves myself. Along with our Lizards of course though.
High Elves have tendacy to get massacred by most armies unless you use a cheese list, a Star Dragon, Tyrion or Teclis.
Make sure his Dragon Princes (If he's got them) don't get their charge off. That'll hurt. Most likely he'll have a Noble/Prince in there with a BSB. So watch out.
If he's using Phoenix Guard don't bother, their a stone wall to anything. In games I've played they've held ground against Archaon and his unit of Knights or just plan Chaos Knights.
You might want to use the flying Scar Vet build to take out his bolt throwers, because those WILL hurt.
Definiately muck with charges using your terradons.
Swordmasters are a meatgrinder so you might want to make sure your not getting into a vital combat with them.
As said before about not casting on spell, you might want to cast a few but definately save some dice for the dispel phase.
And like what most people have said, lots and lots of Saurus warriors to munch on T3 Elves.
I play High Elves myself. Along with our Lizards of course though.
High Elves have tendacy to get massacred by most armies unless you use a cheese list, a Star Dragon, Tyrion or Teclis.
Make sure his Dragon Princes (If he's got them) don't get their charge off. That'll hurt. Most likely he'll have a Noble/Prince in there with a BSB. So watch out.
If he's using Phoenix Guard don't bother, their a stone wall to anything. In games I've played they've held ground against Archaon and his unit of Knights or just plan Chaos Knights.
You might want to use the flying Scar Vet build to take out his bolt throwers, because those WILL hurt.
Definiately muck with charges using your terradons.
Swordmasters are a meatgrinder so you might want to make sure your not getting into a vital combat with them.
As said before about not casting on spell, you might want to cast a few but definately save some dice for the dispel phase.
And like what most people have said, lots and lots of Saurus warriors to munch on T3 Elves.
OldBlood
strewart
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The Lybithian said:
I'm going to have to completely disagree with that point I'm afraid. I'm a long term High Elf player, I do not min/max, I do not take heavy magic, I do not take a dragon, I do not take swordmasters or white lions and I have a pretty decent win/loss ratio even though my main opponent is VC, he hasn't beaten me in a while actually. I struggle a little against DE because they are quite powerful and good against HE, but overall enjoy a balanced mostly infantry based army with no lord at all and win a good amount of games.
With HE it almost entirely depends on the player(and I cannot say anything about your skills since I have never seen you play or your list even so please don't take this the wrong way); they are a tough army to play, they are very very fragile and you can easily go from a good winning position to a big 200 point expensive unit being wiped and sending the game the other way, they require much skill.
IMO the most dangerous things (besides special characters) is dragon princes. They are a big hammer that need to be removed early. Bolt throwers are scary IF you have something worth shooting at like a giant or a stegadon, if you don't... They're only a bit better than a unit of archers against infantry. They are worth dealing with early though. And yes my PG unit almost never breaks no matter what it is against, it stands toe to toe with GG and a vamp lord for multiple turns, both sides hardly losing anything since he heals and I have a good ward save.
I can't see how his character heavy list is going to be scary... Unless it is a magic heavy list, but they are even more fragile. The HE characters really aren't worth their points, with the high toughness of saurian characters you should be able to deal with them. Actually a unit champion can sometimes deal with nobles, you need to be a bit luckier there though because remember they are almost always striking forst with great weapon attacks, high WS and s6.
Well even a hero level HE fighty char has a fair chance vs an Oldblood with ToL and The White Sword - he's very fragile but attacks first nonetheless... (I'd put my bets on him most of the time anyways - Armor of Itzl may be the only answer to that?)
And well with 3 big blocks of saurus you're not gonna get to do much as you'll probably see eagles and shadow warriors march blocking and sacrificing themselves to set up flankcharges in the end...
What you need in my oppinion is perhaps a max of 2 steady blocks (1 including a slann) and then get alot of skinks, terradons, sally's and such - they'll tear apart his infantry...
Then if it's a dragonlist then he'll probably have 1 mage = 2 DS and a BSB with Battlebanner (which you'll probably need to risk your Terradons to interrupt at some point) ... so try picking Lore of Beast and and just use a lot of the dices on beast cowers (can be cast even outside LoS)
Otherwise if I were HE I'd probably be v annoyed by steggies aswell as HE don't really have anything above str 6... and their CR from the BB wont work either on stubborn...)
Tbh. the key is having alot of different troops and not spending alot of points on saurus blocks - imo that is
And well with 3 big blocks of saurus you're not gonna get to do much as you'll probably see eagles and shadow warriors march blocking and sacrificing themselves to set up flankcharges in the end...
What you need in my oppinion is perhaps a max of 2 steady blocks (1 including a slann) and then get alot of skinks, terradons, sally's and such - they'll tear apart his infantry...
Then if it's a dragonlist then he'll probably have 1 mage = 2 DS and a BSB with Battlebanner (which you'll probably need to risk your Terradons to interrupt at some point) ... so try picking Lore of Beast and and just use a lot of the dices on beast cowers (can be cast even outside LoS)
Otherwise if I were HE I'd probably be v annoyed by steggies aswell as HE don't really have anything above str 6... and their CR from the BB wont work either on stubborn...)
Tbh. the key is having alot of different troops and not spending alot of points on saurus blocks - imo that is
Kroxigor
SlannOfItza
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I agree with Strewart and Egern even though they contradict eachother. Let me explain....
A high elf army that goes min/max and tries to play off things like: the dragon, teclis, etc. Are very powerful lists. But...these lists have been abused since 7th edition came out, a smart player can pick and choose what to kill first and lizardmen have the tools to deal with each problem. If they follow a strict power list they can defeated with some brains and some luck.
I don't know if anyone on the forum has heard of Vaul (real person not just the HE god) he plays in auckland, new zealand in many tournaments and recently has been doing alot of high elf battle reports on youtube and such. I'm not saying he's the best player in the world, but I learned alot of my tactics from him, and I actually self taught myself 7th edition rules by watching just about all his videos and by playing with my VC friend and asking alot of questions. I've NEVER read a single line from the 7th edition rulebook, and I pretty much have everything I need to play down flat. Anyway, the reason I brought him up is because he stated in a video that he's never beaten a lizardmen player in any of the tournaments he's gone to. And he says this is because, and I quote, "Lizardmen can match, or beat, any unit a high elf player has..."
So, I just wanted to point out that our army if played balanced and prepared can match these hard lists just fine. You can out think an enemy and win it in the movement phase.
At the same time, I think this is because HE players do these hard lists which can only play one way, and have a specific flaw. A balanced list like strewart plays with some good tactics is much more problematic because now your armies are going to be pretty much even. And at that point it becomes who is a better strategist, and of course the luck of the dice.
I know this post didn't really say anything about what to field to beat high elves, but I hope it may tactically inspire you.
Good Luck...
A high elf army that goes min/max and tries to play off things like: the dragon, teclis, etc. Are very powerful lists. But...these lists have been abused since 7th edition came out, a smart player can pick and choose what to kill first and lizardmen have the tools to deal with each problem. If they follow a strict power list they can defeated with some brains and some luck.
I don't know if anyone on the forum has heard of Vaul (real person not just the HE god) he plays in auckland, new zealand in many tournaments and recently has been doing alot of high elf battle reports on youtube and such. I'm not saying he's the best player in the world, but I learned alot of my tactics from him, and I actually self taught myself 7th edition rules by watching just about all his videos and by playing with my VC friend and asking alot of questions. I've NEVER read a single line from the 7th edition rulebook, and I pretty much have everything I need to play down flat. Anyway, the reason I brought him up is because he stated in a video that he's never beaten a lizardmen player in any of the tournaments he's gone to. And he says this is because, and I quote, "Lizardmen can match, or beat, any unit a high elf player has..."
So, I just wanted to point out that our army if played balanced and prepared can match these hard lists just fine. You can out think an enemy and win it in the movement phase.
At the same time, I think this is because HE players do these hard lists which can only play one way, and have a specific flaw. A balanced list like strewart plays with some good tactics is much more problematic because now your armies are going to be pretty much even. And at that point it becomes who is a better strategist, and of course the luck of the dice.
I know this post didn't really say anything about what to field to beat high elves, but I hope it may tactically inspire you.
Good Luck...