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7th Ed. Ancient Vs Regular Stegadon

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Temple Guard

skinker

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I want to add a second stegadon to my 2250 list (in addition to engine) and am wondering what the board's thoughts are on regular vs ancient. at 40 points difference, cost isn't a huge concern. Ancient has +1 strength and regular has +1 attack. I'd say the ancient wins this comparison, but when you factor in the difference in howdah weapon... I'm not sure who the winner is.

The "bolt thrower" on the regular is nice to have, as we lack any other form of long range "war machine." But, then again, the double giant blowpipes have their appeal as well...

What does the board think?
 
I like my 2 lone Salamanders so I personally could only squeeze a Regadon. However, if you don't use both your Rare slots anyway the Ancient is a better choice.
 
The appeal of a bolt thrower is not that strong I wouldn't think... Remember, the main strength of the stegadon is in combat, you are not paying 200+ points for a weak bolt thrower. So since he should be moving every turn, you are looking at 5+ to hit at best. I don't even like the 3+ to hit on my elven bolt thrower, preferring multiple shot. And then you are in combat.

Giant blowpipes are more useful, after you have barreled through a unit in the next turn when you are turning to line up your next charge you can fire on them first.

Essentially, I think both do their jobs well enough and both should be able to handle a support role for a unit or a flanking role, so I generally prefer the cheaper version just so I have spare points to use elsewhere. Depends on if there is something else you want to buy or not.
 
Don't forget to take the extra survivability into consideration, the skink crew on the ancient has 2+ save and the steg itself has 3+, which is far superior to 3+ and 4+ (I've killed many regular stegs with Reapeter Crossbows but never manage to bring the ancients down without Bolt Throwers). I also agree that the Giant Blowpipes are much better than the Giant bow, 4D6 shots on top of 5 javs from the crew results in an avarage of 19 shots, so its about the same as a 70 pts unit of skinks, while the Giant Bow will have trouble hitting anything, BS 3 and often longe range + moving means hitting on 6s.
 
well remember if they're firing the giant blowpipes they cant use thier javelins (right...? at least i always assumed that...)

eitherways, yeah, it's the survivability that does it for me. the difference in weapons is minimal, as frankly i'd rather never fire them and get more charges in! :P

the giant bow is a decent candidate for second sign rerolls in the first couple of turns, assuming you get both of them.

both would be easily improved by having no penalty for moving and shooting (well i mean the skinks arent moving are they....)
 
walach said:
well remember if they're firing the giant blowpipes they cant use thier javelins (right...? at least i always assumed that...)
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It takes two crew to fire the bolt thrower. It takes one skink for each of the giant blowpipes. So either use up two crew, but the other crew remaining are still free to fire their javelins.
 
I'm of the general opinion that ancient stegs are for characters, while normal stegadons are good for your average day-to-day use.
 
It all depends on your enemy.

The bolt thrower is GREAT against large targets multi-wound targets. Especially with the +1 to hit. Combine that with rerolls from the Lore of Heavens and you can do some real damage before you get into combat.

The twin linked blowguns are amazing against any unarmored targets, but you are usually fighting before you can fire because you want the charge for impact hits. They mainly used as a defensive tactic to keep folks out of range, like units that come on from behind, like Beastmen, Miners, etc.

But as mentioned, they are also useful in the turn after an overrun if you don't have another prime target to take out.
 
I tend to agree with Caneghem. I find that I usually have my Ancient Stegadon in my character slots, so the second one is not necessary. Both have their merits though, so it is really up to your playing style. I just prefer a pair of Salamanders in my rare slots and find the special Stegadon is good for its points. Plus the giant bow can take out some large targets when otherwise it might be tough.
 
with M6 you can also just run arround low-armored blocks of infantry wich you might not want to charge in the front. just throw poison darts at them untill they fail
 
I'm all about the Ancient. His shooting is better, his CC ability (str/Armour) is better too. So unless your tight for points I'd go with the Ancient any day of the week.
 
Caneghem said:
I'm of the general opinion that ancient stegs are for characters, while normal stegadons are good for your average day-to-day use.
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True, but consider the following:

erians said:
Don't forget to take the extra survivability into consideration, the skink crew on the ancient has 2+ save and the steg itself has 3+, which is far superior to 3+ and 4+ (I've killed many regular stegs with Reapeter Crossbows but never manage to bring the ancients down without Bolt Throwers). I also agree that the Giant Blowpipes are much better than the Giant bow, 4D6 shots on top of 5 javs from the crew results in an avarage of 19 shots, so its about the same as a 70 pts unit of skinks, while the Giant Bow will have trouble hitting anything, BS 3 and often longe range + moving means hitting on 6s.
Click to expand...

If you really want your steggie to survive the battle: Ancient.
If you want your steggie to do what it does best, and if he dies; shame but move on: Regular.
The regular one is pretty likely to die on a regular basis (bad, bad pun..)
The ancient with it's added protection will survive just That much more punishment.

The howdah weapon is only a bonus to the stegadon. It should not have any influence on the choice of the Big 'Don at all. Giant bow is below average. Pipes are average. But the pipes are NOT worth the difference in points.

The Hunted

Edited for spelling error I will quote later on :P
 
The Hunted said:
The howdah weapon is only a bonus to the stegadon. It should now have any influence on the choice of the Big 'Don at all. Giant bow is below average. Pipes are average. But the pipes are NOT worth the difference in points.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. 4D6 shots w/ poison. Granted it doesn't have the range of a sword but...
 
yeah these pipes did great for me last night. Killed a handful of swordmasters.
 
JohnMavrick said:
The Hunted said:
The howdah weapon is only a bonus to the stegadon. It should not have any influence on the choice of the Big 'Don at all. Giant bow is below average. Pipes are average. But the pipes are NOT worth the difference in points.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. 4D6 shots w/ poison. Granted it doesn't have the range of a sword but...
Click to expand...

That's why (in bold) the weapons are only a bonus. Surely they are nice, and have killed their share in enemy troops. But that shouldn't be the reason you decide your ancient over your regular.
4-24 poisoned shots is nice, but will (usually) not have great impact on the game. Nor does the Giant bow for that matter.
Unless you manage to roll 20+ sixes! :P THAT would be pretty cool....

The Hunted

Edited for spelling error in my own quote! Edited there too.
 
Actually when the giant bow hits it can help a lot. I took 4 wounds off a Jabber in one game, but failed to hit in the second game. It all depends.
 
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